1851 Navy .36, pine cones, sticks and stumps

Remington kid · January 1, 2006, 08:08 PM

Today I loaded both cylinders for this new 51 navy and headed out the lane behind my work shop looking for trouble. Shot a few peskie pine cones and some stick snakes and then a stump at abouut 10 yards. The .380 ball bounced back from the stump , hit my leg and fell at my feet. It was flat as a skinny pancake! I liked it!

This gun is a real sweetheart to shoot and never had any cap problems at all. Everything cycled as it should once I completed the fine tuning.
Used 25g of Pyrodex "P' and my casted .380 balls with a little lube on top and the CCI #10 caps.
It shoots at point of aim and I'm not going to have to alter the sights at all so I'm happy about that too. Tomorrow I'm giong to try it with a wad and a little grease over the wad just like I do with my Remington's
This is a Cabelas Pietta and the fit and finish are really great. They have really improved on there products the past few years and it shows.
This was my first 6 shots from this revolver the other day. The group left is probably my fault but I'm very pleased with the results. The circle is 2.5".
[IMG]

[/IMG]

MPP1423 · January 1, 2006, 08:22 PM

mike,
how is the casting going for you?

Old Dragoon · January 1, 2006, 08:43 PM

Good shootin' Mike. My friend Cowboy would say you either hit'em or made'em take cover. I like that group. You can move the group!
I wonder if those that shoot the Colt's high are using the correct sight picture. I had one once that I had to put the bead in the very bottom of the notch.

Remington kid · January 1, 2006, 09:09 PM

Kevin, Casted a few hundred this afternoon and I'm still not completely satisfied but I may be expecting to much for cast balls. Some come out with very tiny wrinkles on them and some real smooth and nice. I smoked the mold real well inside the cavity but it doesn't last long as a mold release and after about 25 the balls start to stick to the mold and I have to tap it to get the balls to drop out. I tried with the mold really hot and with the temp turned up on the pot and tried with the mold and lead cooler but it seems to like the lead really hot the best.

Old Dragoon, The sight picture I used at 15 yards was the top of the sight above the "V" . If you picture the top of the sights taper as a bead laying on top of the "V" and held at 6:00 on that 2.5" circle then I'm sure you get the idea. I really expected it to hit real high but as you can see it really hit right on for height.
Mec has mentioned that he believes they have made the front sight higher just recently and this very well could be the case with mine or maybe I just lucked out and it's just working out for me.

I do know that this is a 2005 model.
I still want to lighten the trigger a little more. I like the gun to go off so smooth and easy that when your on sight it will go off without you really knowing it , If you know what I mean

pohill · January 1, 2006, 10:08 PM

Colts shoot high because they were originally sighted in at 50 yds. The Walkers were sighted in at 100 yds.

Steve499 · January 1, 2006, 10:40 PM

Mike, don't you just love it when a plan works out! It's always a nail-biter for me with a new gun until I know whether it's going to be o.k. or not. It's really great you don't have to change the sights, guess you won't need an 1851 dime! My pocket navy shoots really well, too, after a day in the shop making a new sight. My wife went along when I shot it to file the sight down to make it hit where it was looking. She got to shooting the little thing and was knocking over bowling pins at about 15 yards with it. I opened up the frame clearance and it does handle fired caps better but it still requires a look after every shot to see whether the fired cap is going to jam things up or not.
I have the same problem with wrinkles on round balls out of my Lee moulds. I will have several that are perfect and then there will be several that are wrinkled. Smoking does seem to help for a while, like you said, but don't last long. I was shooting the wrinkled ones, though, and they were grouping just as good as the smooth ones so I'm just going to forget about them unless they are really bad. I noticed again today that my cast balls seemed to group better than the swaged balls I had. Hornady's today, out of my .36. The other day they were Speer's out of my .44. There weren't enough controls to make it certain, it was just an overall impression after 8 or 10 groups mixed between cast and swaged balls.That doesn't make sense to me because I know what MY quality control is like!

Steve

Remington kid · January 2, 2006, 07:21 AM

Steve, It sounds like youhave that gun right where you want it! That's great shooten and your wife is just letting you know what will happen if you come home late with lipstick on your coller,

Thanks for the heads up on balls. I wasn't sure if the little wrinkles were normal or not. Like you said, they shoot great! I did weigh a bunch of mine and they are just about perfect. I believe that's a big factor in accuracy in any bullet.Any that look to wrinkled I just place back in the pot.
Yesterday I used some new #10 caps and they worked pefrct! Not one jam and they fit like a glove. Slide on wth my fingers and then seat them with my doll rod with the felt on the end of it . They are just right and not one cap jam.
One other thing that really helps is to round the corners of the area around your nipple opening on the cylinder. As you cock the hammer and it rotates to the right and the cap wants to fall off like it should it will sometimes get hung up on that sharp corner. Mike

Low Key · January 2, 2006, 07:23 AM

Mike, that shot group gets a big

! Very nice! It's a really good thing that they are making taller front sights on the colt replica's now, saves you a whole lot of aiming low to hit your target at 25 yards or less. I've read some old posts where people get really aggravated at the colts because they would shoot so high at short ranges. I think it was Wild Bill speaking of the original colts who said that if you want to hit a man in the chest, aim for his belt buckle!

MPP1423 · January 2, 2006, 12:21 PM

mike,
you know some of my conicals had those lines too.when my lead and mould was really hot it didnt do it any more but every time i added more lead thats when it start again until it all got hot .

Remington kid · January 2, 2006, 03:07 PM

Kevin, Thanks for the tip but I got it straightened out now! The balls look great and it went fast. A guy who has been doing it for years gave me some tips and told me what I was doing wrong. Makeing the lead really hot when you want to cast fast is a must. Also learned to keep the mold hole about 1/2" from the spout and then wait about 2 seconds and then touch the sprue side of the mold to a wet rag laying on your bench for about 2 seconds. The sprue cuts much cleaner and the balls are really smooth.

Steve499 · January 3, 2006, 11:00 AM

I hadn't heard about the wet cloth thing, Mike, I'll have to give it a try. I was having trouble casting minie balls the other day and found that if I actually put the sprue hole in the mould onto the spout tip at the bottom of the lead pot, the bullets filled correctly. I have had trouble casting hollow based minie balls ever since I started doing it. I think the hard part is replicating exactly from bullet to bullet how you fill the mould. I had far fewer rejections last time than ever before. I havn't tried that method with round balls but I suspect it worked better on the minie balls because it doesn't allow the lead to cool any before it hits the mould. Who knows? Anyway it worked for me last time and hopefully will next time, too!

Here's pictures of my pocket navy after I gave a new front sight, antiqued it and the holster I made for it. Still have to make a belt pouch to carry a few quick load tubes, lube pills & caps.

Steve

Old Dragoon · January 3, 2006, 11:15 AM

Pretty cool Steve. Looks great and so does the rig.

Low Key · January 3, 2006, 11:44 AM

Steve, ditto what Dragoon said! Very nice craftsmanship on both the pistol and holster.

tinker2 · January 3, 2006, 01:09 PM

Steve

Nice job.

Remington kid · January 3, 2006, 02:35 PM

Steve, That gun looks great!! Nice job on the front sight too. I'm trying to find a big belt like that but you don't see them very much anymore. If you see another let me know . Thanks , Mike

Steve499 · January 3, 2006, 02:59 PM

Mike, I'm planning to go to Springfield, Mo., this weekend and can pick you up one at the leather shop if you'd like. They are belt blanks, you have to attach the buckles, punch the holes, etc. I can do all that before I mail it if you give me the distance from the buckle you want the first hole. E-mail me if you want and we'll work it out.

Steve

mec · January 3, 2006, 04:09 PM

That is an outstanding pocket navy rig. The antiquing looks like several originals I've seen. The bullet casting thing:
Pressuring the early balls is a pretty good way to get good spheres early in the process. It does tend to leave a hole in the ball under the sprue cut. After the mould heats up, it is usually ok to lower the mould and fill in the ordinary manner. Once the lubricant is gone from the cavity, heat is the main factor in getting good bullets.

Steve499 · January 3, 2006, 04:39 PM

I don't use any lubricant in the Lee aluminum moulds and they get hot easily, to the point the bullets are frosted looking, pretty quick. I have my lead pot set at almost the highest it will go. I will turn it all the way up next time and see what that does. It's pretty old and may be lying to me. I cut 3 of those light minies in half after I drilled one and felt the drill hit an air pocket. The cavities on all three were centered and about 1/8th of an inch from the nose of the bullet. It is probably pearls before swine for me to have perfect bullets cause I don't think my 1861 Springfield can tell the difference, but I have never been absolutely sure if it was it, me or the bullets I fed it that caused it's lack of accuracy. It's a nail driver only if you shoot the whole keg!

I have a good use for those light minies, or for a few of them anyway. Drilled through from the nose to the hollow base cavity, they make great slip-sinkers for catfish in the Missouri river.

Thanks, all, for the compliments on the pocket navy but the truth is, I butchered the finish on the barrel up so badly putting that front sight on that I had to do something to hide it. Birchwood Casey plum brown to the rescue!!!

Steve

Old Dragoon · January 3, 2006, 08:01 PM

STEVE!!!!! you don't share family secrets.....LOL. Either way it is a wonderful specimen and Ya did Good. it is very easy to mess up a blur finish. That is why I use elecrical tape and lots of it and I still do an uh-oh every now and then.

Just hope my gunslinger 4 3/4 In bbl'd '58 ends up looking as good as it once did when it was whole. Almost done. A little cleanup on the sight and a bit o work on the rammer release catch, refinish those areas and we're there. i want to shoot it Sat morning.

Wayner · January 4, 2006, 08:50 AM

I've cast a lot of bullets and found that the Lee pots have holes too small for bullets but work wonders with balls. See the angled channel in the Lee spout(liability-talked to Lee about it) holds the "weight" off the lead and that is imperative to getting consistantly well filled out bullets like the hollow bases.Weight. That is why a caster should use an open top lead melter and a laddle for casting that has the spout on it. The full laddle adds the weight to push the lead into the grooves and such to form well filled out bullets.Lyman sells the laddles with the spouts. You turn the mould sideways and put the spout against the hole and then turn the mould right side up and then it fills and you take the laddle away in such a way as to leave enough spue on top to keep the cooling lead from shrinking and sinking in and making a hole in the bullet base. The weight in the laddle with the spout will really help avoid air pockets in the bullet. Smoking......smoking is bad. Or not real good. Real GOOD is the RAPINE bullet mould prep that is micro fine graphit and alcohol, Want those balls and bullets to fall out of that mould real sweet? Get the RAPINE bullet mould prep. There is no better way to prep a mould. None. Mould -lead too cold= wrinkles. Mould-lead too hot=frost on the balls. Well,anywhoooo.....hope this can help with some of the problems. Side note.......I drilled the spout channel in my Lee pot for making balls(all I use it for) and straighened it out and the lead flows a lot better. It flowed out at an angle towards me.... sos I peened the front edge of the spout over and the angle of the lead coming out went back to going "down". The bigger straighter hole really makes the job of casting balls go as fast as a person can move if the lead is hot and the mould hot.(No breezes or cold air currents going past the mould or lead pot.) One other thing about the Lee pots. The spout can get dross in it from impurities in the lead. The hole needs to be cleaned out to get a good flow once the stream gets skinny. A dental pick bent the right way and worked up into the hole until it raises the stopper gets the hole cleaned out. Wear heavy leather gloves though when cleaning the hole. The dental pick only works after the hole has been drilled out and straighened. With the spout channel the way it comes from the factory I wouldn't know what to clean it with. See yas Buds.

Wayner · January 4, 2006, 08:54 AM

Nice group in that pic above there Remington Kid!

Remington kid · January 4, 2006, 12:31 PM

Thanks Wayner. To nice outside to be in here playing with this thing. It's hell to be retired and nothing but time on your hands...No money, but lot's of time

January 2, 2006, 07:23 AM	#8
Low Key Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: In the woods of TN Posts: 298	Mike, that shot group gets a big ! Very nice! It's a really good thing that they are making taller front sights on the colt replica's now, saves you a whole lot of aiming low to hit your target at 25 yards or less. I've read some old posts where people get really aggravated at the colts because they would shoot so high at short ranges. I think it was Wild Bill speaking of the original colts who said that if you want to hit a man in the chest, aim for his belt buckle! __________________

January 3, 2006, 11:44 AM	#13
Low Key Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 2005 Location: In the woods of TN Posts: 298	Steve, ditto what Dragoon said! Very nice craftsmanship on both the pistol and holster. __________________

January 4, 2006, 08:50 AM	#20
Wayner Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 116	casting I've cast a lot of bullets and found that the Lee pots have holes too small for bullets but work wonders with balls. See the angled channel in the Lee spout(liability-talked to Lee about it) holds the "weight" off the lead and that is imperative to getting consistantly well filled out bullets like the hollow bases.Weight. That is why a caster should use an open top lead melter and a laddle for casting that has the spout on it. The full laddle adds the weight to push the lead into the grooves and such to form well filled out bullets.Lyman sells the laddles with the spouts. You turn the mould sideways and put the spout against the hole and then turn the mould right side up and then it fills and you take the laddle away in such a way as to leave enough spue on top to keep the cooling lead from shrinking and sinking in and making a hole in the bullet base. The weight in the laddle with the spout will really help avoid air pockets in the bullet. Smoking......smoking is bad. Or not real good. Real GOOD is the RAPINE bullet mould prep that is micro fine graphit and alcohol, Want those balls and bullets to fall out of that mould real sweet? Get the RAPINE bullet mould prep. There is no better way to prep a mould. None. Mould -lead too cold= wrinkles. Mould-lead too hot=frost on the balls. Well,anywhoooo.....hope this can help with some of the problems. Side note.......I drilled the spout channel in my Lee pot for making balls(all I use it for) and straighened it out and the lead flows a lot better. It flowed out at an angle towards me.... sos I peened the front edge of the spout over and the angle of the lead coming out went back to going "down". The bigger straighter hole really makes the job of casting balls go as fast as a person can move if the lead is hot and the mould hot.(No breezes or cold air currents going past the mould or lead pot.) One other thing about the Lee pots. The spout can get dross in it from impurities in the lead. The hole needs to be cleaned out to get a good flow once the stream gets skinny. A dental pick bent the right way and worked up into the hole until it raises the stopper gets the hole cleaned out. Wear heavy leather gloves though when cleaning the hole. The dental pick only works after the hole has been drilled out and straighened. With the spout channel the way it comes from the factory I wouldn't know what to clean it with. See yas Buds.

January 4, 2006, 08:54 AM	#21
Wayner Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2005 Posts: 116	nice group Nice group in that pic above there Remington Kid!

January 1, 2006, 08:08 PM	#1
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	1851 Navy .36, pine cones, sticks and stumps Today I loaded both cylinders for this new 51 navy and headed out the lane behind my work shop looking for trouble. Shot a few peskie pine cones and some stick snakes and then a stump at abouut 10 yards. The .380 ball bounced back from the stump , hit my leg and fell at my feet. It was flat as a skinny pancake! I liked it! This gun is a real sweetheart to shoot and never had any cap problems at all. Everything cycled as it should once I completed the fine tuning. Used 25g of Pyrodex "P' and my casted .380 balls with a little lube on top and the CCI #10 caps. It shoots at point of aim and I'm not going to have to alter the sights at all so I'm happy about that too. Tomorrow I'm giong to try it with a wad and a little grease over the wad just like I do with my Remington's This is a Cabelas Pietta and the fit and finish are really great. They have really improved on there products the past few years and it shows. This was my first 6 shots from this revolver the other day. The group left is probably my fault but I'm very pleased with the results. The circle is 2.5". [IMG][/IMG]

January 1, 2006, 08:22 PM	#2
MPP1423 Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2005 Location: GOODLETTSVILLE,TN Posts: 298	mike, how is the casting going for you?

January 1, 2006, 08:43 PM	#3
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Good shootin' Mike. My friend Cowboy would say you either hit'em or made'em take cover. I like that group. You can move the group! I wonder if those that shoot the Colt's high are using the correct sight picture. I had one once that I had to put the bead in the very bottom of the notch.

January 1, 2006, 09:09 PM	#4
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Kevin, Casted a few hundred this afternoon and I'm still not completely satisfied but I may be expecting to much for cast balls. Some come out with very tiny wrinkles on them and some real smooth and nice. I smoked the mold real well inside the cavity but it doesn't last long as a mold release and after about 25 the balls start to stick to the mold and I have to tap it to get the balls to drop out. I tried with the mold really hot and with the temp turned up on the pot and tried with the mold and lead cooler but it seems to like the lead really hot the best. Old Dragoon, The sight picture I used at 15 yards was the top of the sight above the "V" . If you picture the top of the sights taper as a bead laying on top of the "V" and held at 6:00 on that 2.5" circle then I'm sure you get the idea. I really expected it to hit real high but as you can see it really hit right on for height. Mec has mentioned that he believes they have made the front sight higher just recently and this very well could be the case with mine or maybe I just lucked out and it's just working out for me. I do know that this is a 2005 model. I still want to lighten the trigger a little more. I like the gun to go off so smooth and easy that when your on sight it will go off without you really knowing it , If you know what I mean

January 1, 2006, 10:08 PM	#5
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	Colts shoot high because they were originally sighted in at 50 yds. The Walkers were sighted in at 100 yds.

January 1, 2006, 10:40 PM	#6
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Mike, don't you just love it when a plan works out! It's always a nail-biter for me with a new gun until I know whether it's going to be o.k. or not. It's really great you don't have to change the sights, guess you won't need an 1851 dime! My pocket navy shoots really well, too, after a day in the shop making a new sight. My wife went along when I shot it to file the sight down to make it hit where it was looking. She got to shooting the little thing and was knocking over bowling pins at about 15 yards with it. I opened up the frame clearance and it does handle fired caps better but it still requires a look after every shot to see whether the fired cap is going to jam things up or not. I have the same problem with wrinkles on round balls out of my Lee moulds. I will have several that are perfect and then there will be several that are wrinkled. Smoking does seem to help for a while, like you said, but don't last long. I was shooting the wrinkled ones, though, and they were grouping just as good as the smooth ones so I'm just going to forget about them unless they are really bad. I noticed again today that my cast balls seemed to group better than the swaged balls I had. Hornady's today, out of my .36. The other day they were Speer's out of my .44. There weren't enough controls to make it certain, it was just an overall impression after 8 or 10 groups mixed between cast and swaged balls.That doesn't make sense to me because I know what MY quality control is like! Steve

January 2, 2006, 07:21 AM	#7
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Steve, It sounds like youhave that gun right where you want it! That's great shooten and your wife is just letting you know what will happen if you come home late with lipstick on your coller, Thanks for the heads up on balls. I wasn't sure if the little wrinkles were normal or not. Like you said, they shoot great! I did weigh a bunch of mine and they are just about perfect. I believe that's a big factor in accuracy in any bullet.Any that look to wrinkled I just place back in the pot. Yesterday I used some new #10 caps and they worked pefrct! Not one jam and they fit like a glove. Slide on wth my fingers and then seat them with my doll rod with the felt on the end of it . They are just right and not one cap jam. One other thing that really helps is to round the corners of the area around your nipple opening on the cylinder. As you cock the hammer and it rotates to the right and the cap wants to fall off like it should it will sometimes get hung up on that sharp corner. Mike

January 2, 2006, 12:21 PM	#9
MPP1423 Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2005 Location: GOODLETTSVILLE,TN Posts: 298	mike, you know some of my conicals had those lines too.when my lead and mould was really hot it didnt do it any more but every time i added more lead thats when it start again until it all got hot .

January 2, 2006, 03:07 PM	#10
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Kevin, Thanks for the tip but I got it straightened out now! The balls look great and it went fast. A guy who has been doing it for years gave me some tips and told me what I was doing wrong. Makeing the lead really hot when you want to cast fast is a must. Also learned to keep the mold hole about 1/2" from the spout and then wait about 2 seconds and then touch the sprue side of the mold to a wet rag laying on your bench for about 2 seconds. The sprue cuts much cleaner and the balls are really smooth.

January 3, 2006, 11:15 AM	#12
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Pretty cool Steve. Looks great and so does the rig.

January 3, 2006, 01:09 PM	#14
tinker2 Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2005 Location: Dakotas Posts: 144	Steve Nice job.

January 3, 2006, 02:35 PM	#15
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Steve, That gun looks great!! Nice job on the front sight too. I'm trying to find a big belt like that but you don't see them very much anymore. If you see another let me know . Thanks , Mike

January 3, 2006, 02:59 PM	#16
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Mike, I'm planning to go to Springfield, Mo., this weekend and can pick you up one at the leather shop if you'd like. They are belt blanks, you have to attach the buckles, punch the holes, etc. I can do all that before I mail it if you give me the distance from the buckle you want the first hole. E-mail me if you want and we'll work it out. Steve

January 3, 2006, 04:09 PM	#17
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	That is an outstanding pocket navy rig. The antiquing looks like several originals I've seen. The bullet casting thing: Pressuring the early balls is a pretty good way to get good spheres early in the process. It does tend to leave a hole in the ball under the sprue cut. After the mould heats up, it is usually ok to lower the mould and fill in the ordinary manner. Once the lubricant is gone from the cavity, heat is the main factor in getting good bullets.

January 3, 2006, 04:39 PM	#18
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	I don't use any lubricant in the Lee aluminum moulds and they get hot easily, to the point the bullets are frosted looking, pretty quick. I have my lead pot set at almost the highest it will go. I will turn it all the way up next time and see what that does. It's pretty old and may be lying to me. I cut 3 of those light minies in half after I drilled one and felt the drill hit an air pocket. The cavities on all three were centered and about 1/8th of an inch from the nose of the bullet. It is probably pearls before swine for me to have perfect bullets cause I don't think my 1861 Springfield can tell the difference, but I have never been absolutely sure if it was it, me or the bullets I fed it that caused it's lack of accuracy. It's a nail driver only if you shoot the whole keg! I have a good use for those light minies, or for a few of them anyway. Drilled through from the nose to the hollow base cavity, they make great slip-sinkers for catfish in the Missouri river. Thanks, all, for the compliments on the pocket navy but the truth is, I butchered the finish on the barrel up so badly putting that front sight on that I had to do something to hide it. Birchwood Casey plum brown to the rescue!!! Steve

January 3, 2006, 08:01 PM	#19
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	STEVE!!!!! you don't share family secrets.....LOL. Either way it is a wonderful specimen and Ya did Good. it is very easy to mess up a blur finish. That is why I use elecrical tape and lots of it and I still do an uh-oh every now and then. Just hope my gunslinger 4 3/4 In bbl'd '58 ends up looking as good as it once did when it was whole. Almost done. A little cleanup on the sight and a bit o work on the rammer release catch, refinish those areas and we're there. i want to shoot it Sat morning.

January 4, 2006, 12:31 PM	#22
Remington kid Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: South Central West Virginia Posts: 611	Thanks Wayner. To nice outside to be in here playing with this thing. It's hell to be retired and nothing but time on your hands...No money, but lot's of time