Do MP5's REALLY have a 200m range?

bluetoe · January 25, 2002, 08:39 PM

I was perusing a recent issue of Soldier of Fortune when I spotted a graphic detailing the equipment a Delta Force commando would be carrying in Afghanistan. The rifle this soldier in the graphic was carrying was an MP5 (duh). The specs that the graphic gave stated that it fired 9mm ammunition and had an effective range of 200m.

That seems awful long for a 9mm. Even with subgun ammo. Can any body confirm this?

MeekAndMild · January 25, 2002, 09:04 PM

Don't know about the MP-5 but the Uzi has two rear sight settings, 100m and 200m. I wouldn't want to stand in front of one.

Hkmp5sd · January 26, 2002, 02:02 AM

The MP5 has a barrel slightly under 9" and the Uzi's barrel is slightly over 10". Seems there is no way you could shoot a 9mm bullet 200 meters with any kind of accuracy from either of them. I have one each and have never tried to shoot them at that range...maybe I should just for the hell of it.

KSFreeman · January 26, 2002, 09:33 AM

Oh, no, not Soldier of Fiction! All things are possible with training.

Have seen ST members make unbelievable (at least to me) long range shots with HK54s (at night no less). Have not had any opportunity to witness the Dread D shoot. I assume they are real busy at present.

**4V50 Gary** · January 26, 2002, 11:45 AM

Remember that they're firing in the semi-auto mode. The short sight radius doesn't help but I think it's a definite possiblity for the 9mm to consistently hit a chest sized object at 200 yards.

BTW, HK touts that their MP 5/10 (10 mm) is accurate out to 275 meters.

KSFreeman · January 26, 2002, 12:10 PM

Thanks, Gary, for reminding me to add that. Yes, they were on single shot and using 9mm 54s.

However, it's the musician, not the piano. The closed bolt helps with this, but being young, in excellent shape and practice helps even more.

Badger Arms · January 26, 2002, 12:17 PM

The 9mm is capable of making hits at 200m all day long. Problem is, few would attempt such a shot and even fewer are trained to shoot or capable of shooting that well. The operative word here is "Maximum" range.

I'll tell you what, I would not stand at 201m and thumb my nose at ANY person armed with an MP-5. For that matter, I'd worry at 400, 800, or even 1000. Remember that the 9mm bullet can travel over a mile. Full-auto fire can be "Walked" onto a target or target area.

You don't think that the K-98 can reliably hit anything at 1200 meters do you? A squad of riflemen could probably volley-fire their guns at that range against a position and accomplish something though.

Jeff White · January 26, 2002, 12:36 PM

I attended a seminar on Police Use of Submachine Guns at the NRA Convention in ST. Louis (probably '88 or 89). They stated at that time that 300 meters was max effective range for most sub guns. It's certainly ballistically possible. I know someone who can consistantly hit a 10" steel plate at 100 meters with his 1911.

I doubt that the average soldier or police officer could consistantly shoot 'f' silhouettes at 300 meters off hand with an MP5 or UZI. Not enough training time allotted.

Jeff

kogatana · January 26, 2002, 01:27 PM

Yes, it does. Would the typical operator use one at that distance? Likely not. The MP5-Series is a CQC/CQB weapon. It is a design with an emphasis on portability so that the operator is able to carry other things - many other things while simultaneously carrying the MP5. The designed has evolved. One of the variants is the MP5 Personal Defense Weapon (PDW); a version that is meant to be a compromise when a handgun is inadequate and a larger (read shoulder) weapon such as the "standard" MP5 or a Colt M4 is just too large. BTW, I'ved placed rounds from the PDW in a 2.5-foot "circle" at 15 yards. It took a lot of practice but it is achieveable. Fifteen yards is not a significant distance, however in full auto, it is about the maximum I would care to use it in a real scenario.

Greetings everyone. "Newbie" here.

Best Regards,
KT

Johnny Guest · January 27, 2002, 05:25 PM

With my Browning High Power 9 mm pistol, sitting and with a rest, I can handily keep over 50% of a magazine on a silhouette target at a measured 200 yard yange. I am a good shot but not exceptional. I know people who could keep over 80% hits, same conditions.

While I don't doubt my pistol trigger is better than that of most MP-5s, it doesn't have a shoulder stock or an aperture sight.

You're getting out of the design envelope, shooting either the MP-5 OR a service pistol at 200 yards. That doesn't mean either is ineffective at that range.

Best,
Johnny

Salt · January 28, 2002, 02:12 AM

When shooting out in the dry dusty environment of Afghanistan, the bullets will kick up some dust when they impact the ground. Thus one can walk their fire into the target.

Special teams probably need the SMG's for CQC. But for out in the open desert and bare mountains of Afghanistan, I would rather go with an M-14 rifle for long distance engagements.

I can carry a Glock 17 pistol for the fast shooting CQC.

striderteen · January 30, 2002, 07:39 AM

So the answer is yes, the MP-5 can hit that far -- it's just rather hard to do and requires a very high level of proficiency, training, and skill.

Johnny Guest · January 30, 2002, 12:02 PM

bluetoe wrote, "That seems awful long for a 9mm. Even with subgun ammo. Can any body confirm this?"

It is my understanding that U.S. forces use standard 9 mm ball, same as in the Beretta sidearm. Does anyone have any information contrary to this?

Best,
Johnny

FUSILADE · April 1, 2002, 07:08 AM

.....i can regularly hit a coffee can at 100 yards with my mp5. ..i can't imagine why anyone couldn't make a chest shot at 200.

goosegunner · April 3, 2002, 12:07 PM

at 200m the 9mm bullet will not penetrate a standard GI steel helmet or a kevlar vest (designed to stop 1.2g at 400 mps), but Taliban fighters are only protected by a single layer of cotton so that is no problem.

Byron Quick · April 17, 2002, 05:41 PM

Firing an Uzi from the prone position with a sandbag rest, I've hit chest sized targets at 200yds with 3 rd bursts. 200 meters is a bit further but I think it's doable. The hits were usually like one on side of the target, one somewhere in the middle, one on the other. This was also interspersed with a lot of 1 and 2 rd hits as well as misses. It's been years since I tried so I don't really remember ratios.

January 25, 2002, 08:39 PM	#1
bluetoe Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2001 Posts: 174	Do MP5's REALLY have a 200m range? I was perusing a recent issue of Soldier of Fortune when I spotted a graphic detailing the equipment a Delta Force commando would be carrying in Afghanistan. The rifle this soldier in the graphic was carrying was an MP5 (duh). The specs that the graphic gave stated that it fired 9mm ammunition and had an effective range of 200m. That seems awful long for a 9mm. Even with subgun ammo. Can any body confirm this? __________________ I hate bigots, they're all the same

January 25, 2002, 09:04 PM	#2
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	Don't know about the MP-5 but the Uzi has two rear sight settings, 100m and 200m. I wouldn't want to stand in front of one. __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

January 26, 2002, 02:02 AM	#3
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	The MP5 has a barrel slightly under 9" and the Uzi's barrel is slightly over 10". Seems there is no way you could shoot a 9mm bullet 200 meters with any kind of accuracy from either of them. I have one each and have never tried to shoot them at that range...maybe I should just for the hell of it. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

January 26, 2002, 11:45 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Remember that they're firing in the semi-auto mode. The short sight radius doesn't help but I think it's a definite possiblity for the 9mm to consistently hit a chest sized object at 200 yards. BTW, HK touts that their MP 5/10 (10 mm) is accurate out to 275 meters. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

January 26, 2002, 12:17 PM	#7
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	The 9mm is capable of making hits at 200m all day long. Problem is, few would attempt such a shot and even fewer are trained to shoot or capable of shooting that well. The operative word here is "Maximum" range. I'll tell you what, I would not stand at 201m and thumb my nose at ANY person armed with an MP-5. For that matter, I'd worry at 400, 800, or even 1000. Remember that the 9mm bullet can travel over a mile. Full-auto fire can be "Walked" onto a target or target area. You don't think that the K-98 can reliably hit anything at 1200 meters do you? A squad of riflemen could probably volley-fire their guns at that range against a position and accomplish something though. __________________ We may or may not worship God, but John Moses Browning made sure we can choose.

January 26, 2002, 09:33 AM	#4
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Oh, no, not Soldier of Fiction! All things are possible with training. Have seen ST members make unbelievable (at least to me) long range shots with HK54s (at night no less). Have not had any opportunity to witness the Dread D shoot. I assume they are real busy at present.

January 26, 2002, 12:10 PM	#6
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Thanks, Gary, for reminding me to add that. Yes, they were on single shot and using 9mm 54s. However, it's the musician, not the piano. The closed bolt helps with this, but being young, in excellent shape and practice helps even more.

January 26, 2002, 12:36 PM	#8
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	I attended a seminar on Police Use of Submachine Guns at the NRA Convention in ST. Louis (probably '88 or 89). They stated at that time that 300 meters was max effective range for most sub guns. It's certainly ballistically possible. I know someone who can consistantly hit a 10" steel plate at 100 meters with his 1911. I doubt that the average soldier or police officer could consistantly shoot 'f' silhouettes at 300 meters off hand with an MP5 or UZI. Not enough training time allotted. Jeff

January 26, 2002, 01:27 PM	#9
kogatana Member Join Date: January 24, 2002 Posts: 90	Does a MP5 REALLY have a 200m range? Yes, it does. Would the typical operator use one at that distance? Likely not. The MP5-Series is a CQC/CQB weapon. It is a design with an emphasis on portability so that the operator is able to carry other things - many other things while simultaneously carrying the MP5. The designed has evolved. One of the variants is the MP5 Personal Defense Weapon (PDW); a version that is meant to be a compromise when a handgun is inadequate and a larger (read shoulder) weapon such as the "standard" MP5 or a Colt M4 is just too large. BTW, I'ved placed rounds from the PDW in a 2.5-foot "circle" at 15 yards. It took a lot of practice but it is achieveable. Fifteen yards is not a significant distance, however in full auto, it is about the maximum I would care to use it in a real scenario. Greetings everyone. "Newbie" here. Best Regards, KT

January 27, 2002, 05:25 PM	#10
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Well, sure - - - With my Browning High Power 9 mm pistol, sitting and with a rest, I can handily keep over 50% of a magazine on a silhouette target at a measured 200 yard yange. I am a good shot but not exceptional. I know people who could keep over 80% hits, same conditions. While I don't doubt my pistol trigger is better than that of most MP-5s, it doesn't have a shoulder stock or an aperture sight. You're getting out of the design envelope, shooting either the MP-5 OR a service pistol at 200 yards. That doesn't mean either is ineffective at that range. Best, Johnny

January 28, 2002, 02:12 AM	#11
Salt Junior member Join Date: December 26, 2001 Posts: 673	When shooting out in the dry dusty environment of Afghanistan, the bullets will kick up some dust when they impact the ground. Thus one can walk their fire into the target. Special teams probably need the SMG's for CQC. But for out in the open desert and bare mountains of Afghanistan, I would rather go with an M-14 rifle for long distance engagements. I can carry a Glock 17 pistol for the fast shooting CQC.

January 30, 2002, 07:39 AM	#12
striderteen Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Pasadena, California Posts: 590	So the answer is yes, the MP-5 can hit that far -- it's just rather hard to do and requires a very high level of proficiency, training, and skill.

January 30, 2002, 12:02 PM	#13
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Special SMG ammo? bluetoe wrote, "That seems awful long for a 9mm. Even with subgun ammo. Can any body confirm this?" It is my understanding that U.S. forces use standard 9 mm ball, same as in the Beretta sidearm. Does anyone have any information contrary to this? Best, Johnny

April 1, 2002, 07:08 AM	#14
FUSILADE Junior Member Join Date: March 28, 2002 Location: The hoosier state. Posts: 9	mp5 range .....i can regularly hit a coffee can at 100 yards with my mp5. ..i can't imagine why anyone couldn't make a chest shot at 200. __________________ Ride shoot straight and speek the truth.

April 3, 2002, 12:07 PM	#15
goosegunner Member Join Date: February 16, 2002 Location: norway Posts: 81	at 200m the 9mm bullet will not penetrate a standard GI steel helmet or a kevlar vest (designed to stop 1.2g at 400 mps), but Taliban fighters are only protected by a single layer of cotton so that is no problem. Last edited by 4V50 Gary; April 3, 2002 at 01:54 PM.

April 17, 2002, 05:41 PM	#16
Byron Quick Staff In Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,361	Firing an Uzi from the prone position with a sandbag rest, I've hit chest sized targets at 200yds with 3 rd bursts. 200 meters is a bit further but I think it's doable. The hits were usually like one on side of the target, one somewhere in the middle, one on the other. This was also interspersed with a lot of 1 and 2 rd hits as well as misses. It's been years since I tried so I don't really remember ratios.