Less than recommended starting grains?

DogTrot · July 29, 2014, 05:24 PM

I have two loads for my .32 acp. One is topped with a 79 grain, cowboy, lead round nose and the other is a fmj 71 grain.

I am working for the softest, most accurate load and am happy with the 71 grain. However the lead 79 grain is noticably hotter and I wondered if I can go a bit less on the recommended starting grains for it.

Both load and work the action fine.

Universal Clays 2.1 or 2.2
Mixed brass
.978 OAL

Thanks.

243winxb · July 29, 2014, 07:20 PM

http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm Data for the 71 gr. is listed. Lower should be fine for lead bullets. Not jacketed. Just my guess.

tangolima · July 29, 2014, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogTrot

I have two loads for my .32 acp. One is topped with a 79 grain, cowboy, lead round nose and the other is a fmj 71 grain.

I am working for the softest, most accurate load and am happy with the 71 grain. However the lead 79 grain is noticably hotter and I wondered if I can go a bit less on the recommended starting grains for it.

Both load and work the action fine.

Universal Clays 2.1 or 2.2
Mixed brass
.978 OAL

Thanks.

By hotter you mean higher velocity and hence more recoil? Rightfully so. Lead bullets have less friction. They move faster with the same load. Try lighten the charge by 5%.

-TL

Jay24bal · July 29, 2014, 11:01 PM

As long as the bullets are clearing the barrel, the slide is cycling and bullets aren't tumbling, I say go for it.

P.S. I'm assuming you have already "worked down" rather than the normal "worked up" to ensure you are not getting high pressure with excess empty room in the case.

DogTrot · July 30, 2014, 12:08 AM

Ok, thanks.

I have good reliability with both loads which is most important for me. I have more of the LRN than the fmj and am after just a slightly milder recoil. I'll drop it to 2.0 gr with the same OAL and see how it works. I heard fellows claim they were able to get their recoil so soft you could see the bullet rolling down the path towards the target.

ljnowell · July 30, 2014, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay24bal

As long as the bullets are clearing the barrel, the slide is cycling and bullets aren't tumbling, I say go for it.

P.S. I'm assuming you have already "worked down" rather than the normal "worked up" to ensure you are not getting high pressure with excess empty room in the case.

Empty space isn't going to cause high pressure in a handgun case. It's quite common for little bitty charges and lots of empty space.

Magnum Wheel Man · July 30, 2014, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Empty space isn't going to cause high pressure in a handgun case. It's quite common for little bitty charges and lots of empty space.

you can do a search for detonation... it's been know to happen with overly reduced loads...

IMO, it depends on the powder used... I've not loaded enough Clays to be familiar enough with it to offer sound advice...

but would also speculate that dropping .1 grain would be Ok ??? but might look for another powder that offers the pressure curve you're looking for...

g.willikers · July 30, 2014, 12:17 PM

There was a guy at our local club matches who loaded his .38 revolver so light, (while claiming legal power factor), that the bullets could clearly be seen on their way to the target.
Very funny.
They looked like giant BBs in flight.
He was a nice old gent who couldn't handle recoil, so nobody complained.

If there's concern about a small amount of powder floating around in the cases causing problems, the old school method of dealing with it is to fill the case with toilet paper, on top of the powder, to keep the powder down next to the primer.

DogTrot · July 31, 2014, 12:16 AM

It's been an interesting study for the .32 acp reloads. The cowboy lead has a band near the bottom, a lube ring and a driving band, then the curve starts toward the top of the bullet.

I was advised to shorten this style of bullet below the recommended length of .978 to .955 OAL which resulted in a noticeable recoil boost and appeared to get very close to the powder in the case.

This was advised after several failures to load after a well intentioned effort by an experienced gunhand to reduce an 8 to 10 pound trigger pull by filing the top of the sear.

This effort went a stroke or three too far and resulted in the firing pin catch missing what had been the top of the sear and leaving the firing pin sticking out which caught the cartridge as it was entering the chamber and then FTL.

A new sear was ordered and installed with a smoothing of all sharp edges and a polishing on every friction surface. This greatly improved the trigger pull and loading was returned to normal. I also returned the bullet seating depth to the recommended .978 with no further failure to load problems and a reduction of recoil.

Now I am back to my original post about my fine tuning the load.

It's a fun caliber to shoot and I've put about two hundred rounds down range mostly at the 7 and 15 yard targets with good accuracy. It's been an interesting study in reloading and there is a lot more to it than I had imagined.

Clark · July 31, 2014, 12:30 AM

Seat a lead ball firmly into the bottom of the case without powder.
It will put holes in the target, but will not cycle the action.
Work up from there.

243winxb · July 31, 2014, 09:08 AM

Quote:

I was advised to shorten this style of bullet below the recommended length of .978 to .955 OAL which resulted in a noticeable recoil boost and appeared to get very close to the powder in the case.

Seating deeper will raise pressure.

chiefr · July 31, 2014, 10:15 AM

If you don't mind having to occasionally remove a stuck bullet from the barrel.

July 29, 2014, 05:24 PM	#1
DogTrot Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 19	Less than recommended starting grains? I have two loads for my .32 acp. One is topped with a 79 grain, cowboy, lead round nose and the other is a fmj 71 grain. I am working for the softest, most accurate load and am happy with the 71 grain. However the lead 79 grain is noticably hotter and I wondered if I can go a bit less on the recommended starting grains for it. Both load and work the action fine. Universal Clays 2.1 or 2.2 Mixed brass .978 OAL Thanks.

July 29, 2014, 11:01 PM	#4
Jay24bal Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2011 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 735	As long as the bullets are clearing the barrel, the slide is cycling and bullets aren't tumbling, I say go for it. P.S. I'm assuming you have already "worked down" rather than the normal "worked up" to ensure you are not getting high pressure with excess empty room in the case. __________________ I like guns. Once Fired Brass, Top quality, Fast shipping, Best prices. http://300AacBrass.com/ -10% Coupon use code " Jay24bal "

July 30, 2014, 12:17 PM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	There was a guy at our local club matches who loaded his .38 revolver so light, (while claiming legal power factor), that the bullets could clearly be seen on their way to the target. Very funny. They looked like giant BBs in flight. He was a nice old gent who couldn't handle recoil, so nobody complained. If there's concern about a small amount of powder floating around in the cases causing problems, the old school method of dealing with it is to fill the case with toilet paper, on top of the powder, to keep the powder down next to the primer. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

July 31, 2014, 12:30 AM	#10
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	Seat a lead ball firmly into the bottom of the case without powder. It will put holes in the target, but will not cycle the action. Work up from there. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

July 29, 2014, 07:20 PM	#2
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	http://stevespages.com/page8a.htm Data for the 71 gr. is listed. Lower should be fine for lead bullets. Not jacketed. Just my guess.

July 30, 2014, 12:08 AM	#5
DogTrot Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 19	Ok, thanks. I have good reliability with both loads which is most important for me. I have more of the LRN than the fmj and am after just a slightly milder recoil. I'll drop it to 2.0 gr with the same OAL and see how it works. I heard fellows claim they were able to get their recoil so soft you could see the bullet rolling down the path towards the target.

July 31, 2014, 12:16 AM	#9
DogTrot Member Join Date: December 30, 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 19	It's been an interesting study for the .32 acp reloads. The cowboy lead has a band near the bottom, a lube ring and a driving band, then the curve starts toward the top of the bullet. I was advised to shorten this style of bullet below the recommended length of .978 to .955 OAL which resulted in a noticeable recoil boost and appeared to get very close to the powder in the case. This was advised after several failures to load after a well intentioned effort by an experienced gunhand to reduce an 8 to 10 pound trigger pull by filing the top of the sear. This effort went a stroke or three too far and resulted in the firing pin catch missing what had been the top of the sear and leaving the firing pin sticking out which caught the cartridge as it was entering the chamber and then FTL. A new sear was ordered and installed with a smoothing of all sharp edges and a polishing on every friction surface. This greatly improved the trigger pull and loading was returned to normal. I also returned the bullet seating depth to the recommended .978 with no further failure to load problems and a reduction of recoil. Now I am back to my original post about my fine tuning the load. It's a fun caliber to shoot and I've put about two hundred rounds down range mostly at the 7 and 15 yard targets with good accuracy. It's been an interesting study in reloading and there is a lot more to it than I had imagined.

July 31, 2014, 10:15 AM	#12
chiefr Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: AR Posts: 1,401	If you don't mind having to occasionally remove a stuck bullet from the barrel.