First deer since reloading.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by hbhobby

Last year i shot a deer and jellied the lungs exploded the heart and it still ran 150-200 yrds. Think about it, i can hold my breath for about a minute so in theory i could be lung shot and go for probably longer just on O2 in the blood especially if you factor adrenaline into the factor. Now that would be shortened by blood loss but even without a heart you can go 15-20 seconds before blacking out --> death, now spinal damage or brain extrusion they stop right there

Holding your breath is completely different.

First, a deer isn't prepared and taking a deep breath to get ready.

Second, when you hold your breath you've got all the oxygen in your inflated lungs still available. A bullet through those lungs means little/no available oxygen.

Third, try holding your (normal) breath and running and jumping. See how long THAT lasts. Now try exhaling, not inhaling again, and running and jumping.

Fourth, being unable to breathe is only a part of the question. The deer is also dealing with extreme systemic shock and continually dropping blood pressure. Falling blood pressure causes dizziness and vision problems. That's why they often stop and stand there, legs wide and wobbling for a few seconds. They're dizzy and can't see.

As I said in my first post, it's highly likely that this is a cascading series of problems. Just like a plane crash, it's never one thing. A small shot placement error, exaggerated by the angle, coupled with a bullet well known for marginal penetration and you've got a gut shot deer with no vitals hit.

A lot of folks don't realize it but a quartering shot is asking for a lot of extra penetration. A 45dg angle requires about 50% more penetration than a broadside shot if you want an exit wound. If a deer is 14" wide, a 45dg shot requires 20" of penetration to hit the same center point and still exit.

Besides the extra penetration, a 1" lateral shot placement error results in about 1.5" of error on intended POI. How many of us are able to put bullets within 1" of intended POI at 185 yards under hunting conditions?

What would have been the back of one lung and the front of the other turns into missing behind the near lung and lacking penetration to reach the opposite lung.

[HiBC]

Not harping on anyone,in my experience,If you see a critter still has control of its head,send another one.

That applies to a rooster pheasant,too.You can roll them with a load of 5's,knock the pillow stuffing off of them,and if you see the bird find his head on top his neck,bust him again or you will need a real good dog.

[603Country]

With talk about killing pre-wounded deer, that reminds me that most of the limping/damaged deer I've killed over the years either had a blackpowder musket ball in them or an arrow hanging out of them. I walked up on a doe many years ago that was too weak to run from me. Just stood there and watched me walk up. She had an arrow hanging out of her rectum. She was almost too gone to stand up. I finished her off. Took the arrow to the fellow that I figured had put it there and told him what I found. Some time later I also took him the musket ball that fell out of the butt (a fully healed butt) of a massive 8 point.

All that said, the musket ball wound was healed, and I'm sure he didn't intend to wound the doe. I've wounded a few over the years, so I can't throw rocks at him.

And yes, if I had a deer flopping around energetically, I'd shoot it again. The story I mentioned earlier, I don't guess that I said that from the time I shot the deer and he fell and lay motionless was at least 10 minutes. Not a twitch. Then he woke up and in a matter of seconds he was gone. Truth is, which is probably the same thing the OP was thinking, is that I just placed that bullet perfectly. And if so, no need to shoot it again. I've shot hundreds of deer, and most all of them were put down by the first bullet or ran out of sight immediately, to be found after a short tracking session. I really can't remember right this minute, of having to shoot a deer a second time from a distance. When I was guiding hunters, I carried a pistol on me to finish off wounded critters, but I hardly ever had to use it, so I quit carrying it.

[buck460XVR]

The thing is, an animal that lifts it's head 5-10 minutes after being shot has not been shot in the boiler room, regardless of the ammo used. An animal that lifts it's head again 5-10 minutes after being shot needs to be put out of it's misery immediately, not just watched to make sure it keeps falling down after trying to get back up. If one truly thought they had a DRT shot, there was no need to wait and retrieve the animal. Unless of course they were waiting for the guide to come gut it out. Finding a small smear of blood where a large game animal laid wounded and struggled for 10 minutes tells me that it wasn't poor bullet performance. If it was a thin jacketed bullet that exploded on impact and fragmented early, it would have left a bloody mess from soft tissue damage, even tho it was not a mortal wound. That deer was punched too high or too low.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Many times its a meat destruction issue why a fellow didn't shoot the animal once more when he had a good chance too. I've heard that type of comment a couple times over the years._

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by Sure Shot Mc Gee:

Many times its a meat destruction issue why a fellow didn't shoot the animal once more when he had a good chance too. I've heard that type of comment a couple times over the years._

Yeah, I've heard that one too. What kind of arse lets an animal suffer longer than it needs to, just to gain 4 ounces of meat? Ain't a person alive in the lower 48 that will starve to death without that quarter pound of burger. Most times the poor first shot wastes a hellava lot more meat than a good clean follow up. Add to that the fact allowing the animal to suffer for a period of time before it dies will taint the meat with adrenaline and make that 4 ounces of meat and the rest of the animal less palatable. Still none of this has anything to do with poor bullet performance......just poor hunting skills/ethics.

[trobin]

Oh trust me I would've put another one in him if I had the opportunity. In fact I would've shot him in the head if I would've known how this played out. So if something steps out this evening ill do exactly that. That way there'll be no wasted meat, unnecessary suffering, or concern for bullet quality. Shot placement won't even matter. Either ill hit it and splatter it's brain across the shooting lane or I won't and it'll live happily ever after unless someone else shoots it or it gets hit by a car.

[shortwave]

^^^or you'll shoot its snout or lower jaw off causing a very long and painful death.

The reason most will not take head shots as the first/primary shot. Just too small of a kill zone.

Unless you were referring to taking the head shot as a follow-up shot to put deer out of its misery in the above post.

[trobin]

Actually I shot a 65 lb yearling broad side (right to left). He dropped and flopped out of sight. Then I short the momma (125 lb doe) when she ran back to me. The shot was a head on quartering towards my left. She disappeared. Picked up the yearling and tracked doe about 15 yards into the brush. First shot was roughly 75 yards and second was roughly 100. Both core lokts passed through with ease and were on mark.

[Gunplummer]

No wonder magnums became so popular.

[Colorado Redneck]

Shot a nice fat mulie doe the other day from about 150 yards broadside. 25-06 with a 110 gr. Accubond hand load. She hopped over a little berm with the other three and they kept going but she didn't. When I got to her she was stone cold dead. The shot hit a little higher than I wanted---forgot that the bullet was around 3 inches high at that range, but was through the lungs.

Here's the interesting part. There was darn little blood trail---I went to where I shot her and was searching for blood and there were a few little spatters. I followed here trail and she was laying on the "away" side so the entrance wound was evident. Well, when I rolled here on her back to start field dressing, there was no blood under there. Huh??? Proceeded to gut the animal and the lungs were total mush. Took her to the processor and when they skinned her, there was a big blood splotch on the inside of the hide where the bullet would have exited.

I have heard hunters often find Accubonds just under the hide on the "away" side of their animals. Since I didn't skin it, I don't know if that was the case or not. I was happy with the bullet performance, but now I understand why some hunters want a "complete pass through" so there is more blood trail. I was hunting the arroyos and canyons in the plains, and the gulches are like grapevines, so keeping an eye on an animal you just shot isn't likely to happen if it runs farther than a few yards.

As a footnote, usually I examine a critter pretty good, but I am recovering from a Cold From Hell and was thinking I would be really lucky to get her into the truck as weak as I was. Just kinda went through the motions after I got her shot.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Sorry to hear about yesterdays school event in CO. Sir.

As thought: a bad cold and a hunt do not mix. Been there and done that. More than once myself. BTW you know as well as I. Those who hunt with 25-06 or 270 seldom miss their marks.

[flashhole]

Took this years deer with a handload for my 7mm Rem Mag. Not much in the antler department but a big bodied buck. Shot him from about 120 yards away between the second and third rib, no damaged bone on either side of the entry. The bullet was a Speer 175 grain Mag Tip (discontinued for a few years now). Enty wound was not quite as big as a half dollar, He was slightly quartered away and down hill, the bullet exited the front leg on the opposite side about knee height. The entire upper 1/3 of his heart was gone and the heart was completly detached from anything else inside the body cavity and he still ran about 30 yards before piling up. Put 72 pouds of de-boned meat in the freezer.