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Old April 27, 2016, 08:41 AM   #1
g.willikers
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The Gun is the Least of It.

Most conversations on this or any other forum are about what to buy, what's the most accurate, what ammo is best, 'etc, 'etc.
But when it gets right down to it, it's quite often the shooter more than the equipment.

This article from the recent Shooting Sports USA online magazine is a perfect example.
(Anyone can apparently subscribe to it at the web site for free - https://www.ssusa.org/sign-up-for-updates/).

In 1921, a 62 year old fellow using an off the rack rifle with plain ole' issue ammo, and a home made spotting scope sets a 1000 yard record that stands to this day.
Check it out:
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/...CENSORED-=0416
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Old April 27, 2016, 10:06 AM   #2
9x45
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It's never the gun, but everyone wants new magic instead of mastering the fundamentals of stance, grip, sight picture and trigger. That's too hard and takes too long. Fortunately for those who don't want to take lessons and learn how to shoot there is this. It takes you from Z class to Grand Master in one stage.. Endorsed by USPSA World Champions, Ben Stoeger and Franck Proctor. Only $4,350......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjQk244oW9c
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Old April 27, 2016, 10:51 AM   #3
cslinger
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The hell you say.
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Old April 27, 2016, 07:24 PM   #4
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Here here. It is more often than not.....the Indian, not the arrow.

But, being a good Indian requires skill, which in turn requires much effort to develop. You can't train to be a good Indian when you spend all your time on video games....or with your nose stuck in your stupid phone.....or any of a million other distractions.

So, that let's out most people.....and those people look for a short cut. A radar-aimed bow, shooting laser-guided arrows, so to speak.
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Old April 27, 2016, 08:01 PM   #5
ms6852
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There is always talke about which rifles are moa or sub moa shooters, and my response has always been the same. With the advances in metallurgy and technology, powders for ammo and the manufacturing process, every rifle is an moa shooter. It is the shooter that is not an moa shooter.

I remember teaching my younger brothers a lesson when it came to long range shooting. Both of them had purchased these custom rifles costing about $3200 each and with their Schmidt and Benders scope brought their shooting package to $6000.

We placed milk jugs at 500, 650 and 800 yds and we made a bet to see who would shoot the milk jugs first. I was using a Savage 110C in 30-06 that I had bought as a package with a bushnell banner scope, total cost was approx $329 more or less. Any 4 shots later I got all 3, missed the 650 jug as I miscalculated my ballistics compensation chart. They each used 14 shots to finally hit all 3 jugs.

I told them that they should have spent $5600 in ammo instead of their rifles because it did not make a difference if they do not practice and better yet learn trajectories and how ballistics really work when shooting. Having the best money can buy is useless if you do not know your basics.
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Old April 27, 2016, 09:18 PM   #6
xandi
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What?the gear won't make me better?(;
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Old April 27, 2016, 09:48 PM   #7
cslinger
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On a more serious note. My guns and gear are very much a hobby. I enjoy the variety, the tinkering the "barbi for men" if you will. I am a fairly decent shooter with damn near anything but not anything near expert with anything.

Whenever folks ask me about buying a gun or am for training I always tell them I am a fair to middling marksman because I don't commit to a single platform or put as much money into ammo as I should. I always tell them if they want to LEARN TO SHOOT I will teach them the fundamentals of trigger control, front sight, press etc. but it is up to them to pick a gun and BA/UU/R as a departed gunny on these boards used to say. Buy ammo, use up, repeat. Nothing beats trigger time and muscle memory.

The great majority of us love to get new toys and we love justifying our new purchases but the reality is a 70s jframe loaded with 5 rounds of decent ammo and backed by years and thousands and thousands of rounds of practice is way better then any wonder weapon in my armory.

All the high tech glass in the world won't teach you how to read the wind, understand the drop of a given ammo, give you the instincts to dial in the right amount of Kentucky windage as needed. That takes ammo, training, practice, experience and time. Once you have all that good glass/rifles etc can make your job easier but nothing more.
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Old April 27, 2016, 10:24 PM   #8
ms6852
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very well put, cslinger.
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Old April 28, 2016, 07:15 AM   #9
MrBorland
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While money can't buy skill, I'm a firm believer that one ought to use the right tool for the job. In many cases, using sub-standard or even wrong gear will impede your progress.

When on the steep part of your learning curve, you don't need top-of-the line gear, but you'd certainly benefit from using good, accurate and reliable gear that's pretty standard for the game you're interested in.

On top of that, good gear is more enjoyable to use, so you're likely to use it more. The best gun in the world is the one you'll enjoy shooting the most.
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Old April 28, 2016, 10:42 AM   #10
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Competition action shooting (not standing behind a bench shooting at a box target at an indoor range): USPSA/IDPA/Steel Challenge and 3 gun are 95% mental, 50% physical and 25% gear. True, a $5,500 STI 9 Major Open Division gun will make it easier to make the hits than a $300 HiPoint, but without the fundamentals you will just make the same mistakes faster with the STI.
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Old April 28, 2016, 12:27 PM   #11
Jim Watson
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The Masters don't need fancy gear to beat me, but they need the best they can get to stay competitive with the other Masters.
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Old April 29, 2016, 12:13 PM   #12
RickB
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There was an Italian army officer who was expected to compete in the '40 Olympics in pistol shooting.
He lost his right arm in combat, and later won an Olympic medal shooting left-handed.
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Old April 29, 2016, 08:18 PM   #13
buckhorn_cortez
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You find the same thing in most pursuits, not just guns. In photography many people chase the newest, latest gear in hopes that will help them make a better photograph.

Better equipment never replaces creativity and the ability to see the photograph. What expensive equipment does do for the photographer who understands the process is never impede them from making the photograph that they see.

Shooting is much the same. You can't buy shooting skills. Those are fostered by talent and practice. What you can do, however, is ensure that you're never being limited or impeded by the equipment.

To that end, much like photography, good equipment takes a variable out of the process and makes it so you never have to wonder if the problem is you or the equipment.

You know that any limitations are your own - and not due to the equipment.
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Old April 29, 2016, 10:38 PM   #14
Radny97
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^^^^^^^^ this
I practice frequently (at least once a week of action pistol stuff) and periodically I will get to wondering (especially when I hit an improvement wall) whether my gun is shooting as accurate as it should be and that the sights are on, etc. I will then use part of a practice session to do some bench rest testing and prove to myself that the sights are on and that I'm getting 2 inch groups at 25 yards.
That will remove a mental impediment for me and then I can better reevaluate what I am doing to figure out what the holdup is in improving my skills.
The most important part of having the right equipment is to remove from your mind any thought that the lack of perfect performance is anything but you. That said, I wholeheartedly agree that people spend way too much on getting the right set up and way too little on range time and ammo.
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Old April 30, 2016, 06:19 AM   #15
mavracer
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I learned this 25 years ago watching a Grand Master IPSC shooter with a bone stock Smith 39-2 shooting minor still smoked the course.
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Old May 1, 2016, 10:58 AM   #16
Road_Clam
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I don't own any expensive accessories. I do own a lot of minor accessories that help me shoot more comfortable. I don't have $6000 custom GAP rifles. I don't have $4000 Schmidt and Bender optics. I have thrown together R700 "mutt" rifles with OEM stock X mark pro triggers that "can" shoot moa at all distances. I am not an "moa all day long" shooter as so many bragging cowboys seem to claim. My most expensive accessory is my 8-32x50 Sightron scope which cost me $800 (cheap compared to high end scopes). I wanted good quality glass and tracking for my terrible eyes to help me at 600+ yds. High end expensive rifles and accessories will NOT make me a better shooter. Investing my money not in expensive bling, but investing in bullets, primers ad powder and getting out to the range shooting every chance I get will. My hold deficiencies are my problem, not my lack of quality equipment.
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