Best cheap .38 or .357 factory defense ammo?

[Siggy-06]

I can usually find Hornady Critical Defense cheaper than the other big brands.

[wild cat mccane]

Meplat doesn't matter for small calibers. It doesn't contribute anything. At all.

Please, for all that is holy, could we bookmark this link so people would stop repeating this?

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html

[zxcvbob]

That article doesn't seem to say what you think it does:

Originally Posted by http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html

Secondly – opt for the shortest possible solid of sufficiently good quality and design. A 500-grain brass wadcutter of .458 calibre is shorter than a round nose of the same weight, material and calibre and that in turn is shorter than such a spitzer. The late Elmer Keith introduced us to the improved wound channel and energy transmission properties of the wadcutter. This is confirmed by Duncan MacPherson in his work Bullet Penetration – Modelling the Dynamics and Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma, based on the research of the world’s leading wound ballistics expert, Dr Martin Fackler. By opting for this shape one would incorporate as much punch into your solid as possible.

[osbornk]

Originally Posted by Siggy-06

I can usually find Hornady Critical Defense cheaper than the other big brands.

Haven't shot it yet but that is what my daughter got me for fathers day (357) for my snubby.

[wild cat mccane]

They are talking large caliber rounds. I have not found a 500gr 357 round yet...

If you follow those others as you listed by my link, they say the same thing. 44mag and up is where meplat matters. Lower, it doesn't.

[Hal]

Please, for all that is holy, could we bookmark this link so people would stop repeating this?

LOL! Good luck there!
Since roughly 1998, I've been repaeting the same line "If wadcutters made good defensive loads, every manufacturer would make one - the simple fact that none exist for that purpose tells the whole story".


But - rest assured, somebody will come along in a few days and say they carry wadcutters - or even worse, wadcutters loaded backwards so there's a giant cavity. I just gave up.... .

[wild cat mccane]

Haha. Well I am still in dispelling this myth because there is so much documentation on why meplat only matters on huge hunting rifle rounds or 44 and up bullets.

Now those references aren't gel tests, those are big game hunter labs using documented math. That's just cool.

That said, even the imagination can't create a situation where a wad cutter performs better than a poorly expanded hollow point. Slow is good? Sharp meplat edges? flat cross sectional density? If even true (they aren't), the hollow point wins every single argument.

HST 130gr 38 special opens to about double the size of a 45acp FMJ. Golden Saber in 38 opens to 2xs the size of a wad cutter at nearly the same penetration.

Wad cutter? Bottom of the pack for performance.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/rev...llistics-test/

To add, I would recommend the new Prvi 158gr hollow point as the best cheap 357 round. It's a huge mouth. It probably is a bad bullet that will fail, but it's the best bad bullet at the overall lowest cost for 357 hollow point.

That's a deal if stocking up.

Fiocchi anything hollow point will be cheaper and will be quality too.

There just aren't many types of 38/357 bullets out there. So the pricing isn't wild between them all.

[DWFan]

Buckeye, you didn't answer your question at all. The video is of the old style scalloped jacket HP bullet ammo. The targetsports ad is for the newer semi-jacket HP bullet ammo. Aside from that difference, there is an approx. 50 fps difference in velocity (6"barrel) with the older ammo being faster. You might as well be comparing Winchester to Hornady.
Remington, in their infinite genius, is discontinuing the scallop jacket bullet for reasons unknown and unexplained. As seen in the video, the older scalloped jacket bullet is an outstanding performer.

[TruthTellers]

[gb_in_ga]

Have you checked out Georgia Arms? They are listing their .38 Spl +p 158 gr LSWCHPs at $14 for a baggie of 50.
http://www.georgia-arms.com/38-speci...ollow-point-p/

They've got quite a few other options, including .357 Mag. You might want to give them a look-see. I once lived within driving distance of their brick and mortar. Good folks...

[buck460XVR]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

Be aware, Remington 125gr SJHP is a known round for hammering the forcing cone.

Look up. I bought a 1,000 rounds at one point before finding this out

Never heard of that. While it's well know than hot 110 grainers will eat away at the forcing cone, I have yet to see anything about 125ers. 125 JHP/SJHP are what most folks recommend for SD/HD outta a .357 and those Remingtons are not really hot for 125s.

[Buckeye!]

Originally Posted by DWFan

Buckeye, you didn't answer your question at all. The video is of the old style scalloped jacket HP bullet ammo. The targetsports ad is for the newer semi-jacket HP bullet ammo. Aside from that difference, there is an approx. 50 fps difference in velocity (6"barrel) with the older ammo being faster. You might as well be comparing Winchester to Hornady.
Remington, in their infinite genius, is discontinuing the scallop jacket bullet for reasons unknown and unexplained. As seen in the video, the older scalloped jacket bullet is an outstanding performer.

Thanks for the heads up !!!

[Carmady]

The Rem 357HTP 158gr SJHP I ordered from Lucky Gunner have the scalloped jacket.

[kenny53]

I like 158gr jsp 357 out of my 4" barrel SP101. It is what I carry in the gun. I don't know about expansion but it pokes holes in paper without a problem. I read somewhere before the internet was invented that you needed at least a 4" barrel to get the most performance out of the 357 magnum round. I don't know how true that is but I have used that nugget of information as my standard for a lot of years.

[wild cat mccane]

https://thefiringline.com/forums/arc...?t-455649.html

One of a million.

125gr loves the forcing cone

Recall, I said I bought 1,000 of them. So would a couple of cases kill my GP100 or 686s? I'm not finding out. Sold them all.

[gb_in_ga]

So would a couple of cases kill my GP100 or 686s?

Nope. The forcing cone issue was primarily related to K Frames. For that matter, one big reason for the development of the L Frames (like the 686) was to reinforce the forcing cone so that hot 125 JHPs would no longer be a problem.

[wild cat mccane]

It's not that 110gr or 125gr are special, it's that they typically are hotter than standard 158gr (ie, 158gr can be hot and can flame cut too).

However, if you shoot 110gr/125gr 357 exclusively? You're likely shooting one of the harder hitting rounds on your gun.

Let's not kid ourselves, timing can go out, flame cutting likely doesn't cause an issue but can on anything but the L/N frames. It's a hard round.

What 125gr brings with super velocity over 158gr for personal protection, I'm not sure.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by wild cat mccane

It's not that 110gr or 125gr are special, it's that they typically are hotter than standard 158gr (ie, 158gr can be hot and can flame cut too).

However, if you shoot 110gr/125gr 357 exclusively? You're likely shooting one of the harder hitting rounds on your gun.

Let's not kid ourselves, timing can go out, flame cutting likely doesn't cause an issue but can on anything but the L/N frames. It's a hard round.

What 125gr brings with super velocity over 158gr for personal protection, I'm not sure.

Doesn't overpenetrate, less recoil, probably expands to a larger diameter given the added velocity.

[KyJim]

I can afford anything, my question is what's a cheap .38 or .357 ammo that can be regularly shot during practice that also actually expands.

My price ceiling for that is 65 cents a round.

At that price, definitely look at the Remington Golden Sabers (non-bonded). They do quite well in the ballistic gel tests I've seen.

For example, Lucky Gunner's tests showed average expansion at 17.6 inches and expansion at .62 inches from a four inch barrel. A test through denim on Youtube --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLqqDaGHDWw

And they are 50 cents per round or cheaper (depending on quantity) at https://www.sgammo.com/ (plus shipping). I haven't shopped around so you may find them cheaper elsewhere.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

I can afford anything, my question is what's a cheap .38 or .357 ammo that can be regularly shot during practice that also actually expands.

My price ceiling for that is 65 cents a round.

I doubt you want cheap POS ammo! What you want seem's to be inexpensive ammo that will work well in your gun. I load all my own but I don't load jacketed handgun bullet's. I use only cast bullet's except in my carry guns, then it's factory stuff. I have heard not to shoot someone with a handload, not gonna wonder why as getting a box of factory stuff now and then won't break the bank. For practice with the carry guns, I shoot mostly cast!

Question I ask is how accurate do you need to be at 15' to hit a target the size of a man's chest? I have a problem as my rifles are very accurate and if one shot like a handgun for group's, I'd dump it in a heart beat!

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

I doubt you want cheap POS ammo! What you want seem's to be inexpensive ammo that will work well in your gun. I load all my own but I don't load jacketed handgun bullet's. I use only cast bullet's except in my carry guns, then it's factory stuff. I have heard not to shoot someone with a handload, not gonna wonder why as getting a box of factory stuff now and then won't break the bank. For practice with the carry guns, I shoot mostly cast!

Question I ask is how accurate do you need to be at 15' to hit a target the size of a man's chest? I have a problem as my rifles are very accurate and if one shot like a handgun for group's, I'd dump it in a heart beat!

It's not a question of accuracy, it's a question of effect. Any ammo is accurate enough at 5 to 10 yards.

[zxcvbob]

Question I ask is how accurate do you need to be at 15' to hit a target the size of a man's chest? I have a problem as my rifles are very accurate and if one shot like a handgun for group's, I'd dump it in a heart beat!

Practice shooting at that distance as fast as you can put all the shots on a dinner-sized paper plate (what is that, 10 inches or 12?) All the shots have to hit, but anywhere on the plate is fine; doesn't have to be the center. You'll find you can do it pretty fast and accurate enough after just a few times. Any handgun in decent repair should do that if you do your part.

ETA: they are 9 or 10 inches, depending on the brand Might need to use something just a little bigger.

[Buckeye!]

The effectiveness of 38spl 148gr LWC will be on debate for years to come .... I have heard arguments and debates from both sides...

[OneFreeTexan]

Originally Posted by Ben Dover

For your self defence ammo, forget the cost and buy the best.

Federal 125 JHP. This stuff has a ton of "Street Cred" with LE.

Self defense.......cheap ammo,,,,,don’t seem to go together in my book.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by OneFreeTexan

Self defense.......cheap ammo,,,,,don’t seem to go together in my book.

So if you want to practice twice a month and shoot say, 50 rounds each time of the same ammo you intend to use for self defense and that ammo costs $1 a round, you're fine with spending $100 a month because that's the price of the premium self defense ammo you prefer?

But, there is ammo available for half that price that also works, maybe the bullet doesn't expand consistently, but it does expand and because of its low price allows you to buy more of it vs the more expensive ammo, which means you can shoot more for less money.

For many decades, people used cheap ammo for self defense and either never had to use it in their lives or did use it and it worked fine.