Unknown Luger

Surp · August 19, 2019, 12:45 AM

Not 100% sure about this one but was said to be French. The star markings and the 3 digit serial number lead me to believe it might be French. what say ye?

martin08 · August 19, 2019, 05:35 PM

This Luger is so heavily buffed and refinished, that it has no original lines left. Maybe done for post-war security for the French? Sure, it could have been redone for that purpose. But it is not a new construction at the Mauser factory.

**44 AMP** · August 19, 2019, 06:28 PM

My Luger book has again gone 'on holiday" so I can't look it up right now, sorry. However, despite the photobucket logo it appears to say "Germany" on it.

If I remember correctly, that indicates the gun was made for commercial sale, originally. The last picture shows part of what I assume is a year date on the chamber. That would help a bit in IDing the gun. Is it 1939??

There appears to be a WAa Pruf eagle on the toggle. This would indicate acceptance by the Nazi government.

Pretty certain the grips are not original. Not certain if the gun is actually original matching numbers or a "force match" though with the differences in the finish of the different parts, it seems likely to be a force match gun.

It MAY have been used by the French, post WWII, I can't say, at this point. One thing I can tell you is that it wasn't made by the French, or made FOR the French.

Personally, I think its a parts gun, with no special collector value, but I'm not a Luger expert.

Surp · August 20, 2019, 01:24 AM

The reason the gun would have many different markings from different eras is because the early guns were put together with leftover parts right after the war by the French.

The grips were said to be thought not original.

Surp · August 20, 2019, 01:47 AM

I noticed the buffing as well but I also noticed it was mainly in spots where old markings had to be removed for new serial numbers and proof marks to be applied to old parts so that's why It didn't seem that abnormal to me. There's not a whole lot of information about French Lugers so I could be wrong.

Surp · August 20, 2019, 02:18 AM

This has been the only other firearm I've been able to find with that type of marking.

mapsjanhere · August 21, 2019, 09:40 AM

The French would have applied multiple marks, if there's only one on the gun my guess would be it's a Frankenluger that was put together including a French marked receiver, but clearly it has a mix of commercial and military parts that were forcematched.

Surp · August 21, 2019, 11:28 AM

all of the first ones were Frankenlugers put together with leftover parts. It also has a star on the top of the toggle as pictured. it's my understanding that the French weren't big on marking these and a lot of the later ones didn't have any markings from the French at all.

look at this description this this guy gives of his.
https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...t-Mauser-Luger

https://pre98.com/shop/gone-but-not-...risp-stunning/

GarandTd · August 21, 2019, 05:21 PM

I noticed in the 2nd picture, there is an eagle on the left side of the barrel. I've been told I have an eagle eye.

**44 AMP** · August 21, 2019, 11:25 PM

I believe you have a parts gun. And while its not impossible the French might have used it, and put the star on it, its a cobbled together gun.

I have found reports that the French did run some German factories until about the end of 46, and built perhaps as many as 50 Panther tanks and a couple hundred FW 190 fighter planes. They did make many thousands of Walthers, especially P.38s.

I can find no reports of them producing Lugers. This doesn't mean that a handful of guns couldn't have been assembled with whatever parts they could find, but I can't find any mention of it being an organized thing like the production of P.38s

The frame of the gun pictured says "Germany" on it. This marking was only applied to pre WWII guns intended for commercial sale. The chamber appears to have the date of 1939. The barrel and the forward part of the toggle assembly have the Nazi Eagle stamp, meaning that those parts (at the least) went through the Nazi system either before or during WWII.

Also, the 3 digit serial number is suspect. The standard practice was 4 digit number that repeated in blocks with a letter added after the first block.
And the normal place for the serial number was on the front frame below the barrel, not on the side of the chamber.

ok, I checked the link, and I stand corrected. Apparently there were a number of Lugers put together under French direction. Wonder why none of my references mention that....

Germany stopped producing Lugers in 1942. The tooling was "repurposed" we would say today. Germany stopped making Lugers so they could use the tools and workers for other, more cost effective projects.

When Mauser wanted to produce Lugers again, for civilian sale, they wound up buying the tooling from the Swiss, (who had stopped making Lugers a long time before, but still had the tooling in storage,) as it was the only existing tooling. This is why Mauser made the "Swiss Pattern" Lugers for a limited run in the 70s. The original German tooling was long gone.

Surp · August 24, 2019, 01:12 AM

Not too many people do know anything about them as there's not much information but you can do a simple search and look on the Luger Wikipedia to find that they did make up to 4,000 of them with the beginning guns being made from leftover parts AKA Parts guns.

Look under the post-war production section.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol

August 19, 2019, 12:45 AM	#1
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Unknown Luger Not 100% sure about this one but was said to be French. The star markings and the 3 digit serial number lead me to believe it might be French. what say ye?

August 19, 2019, 06:28 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	My Luger book has again gone 'on holiday" so I can't look it up right now, sorry. However, despite the photobucket logo it appears to say "Germany" on it. If I remember correctly, that indicates the gun was made for commercial sale, originally. The last picture shows part of what I assume is a year date on the chamber. That would help a bit in IDing the gun. Is it 1939?? There appears to be a WAa Pruf eagle on the toggle. This would indicate acceptance by the Nazi government. Pretty certain the grips are not original. Not certain if the gun is actually original matching numbers or a "force match" though with the differences in the finish of the different parts, it seems likely to be a force match gun. It MAY have been used by the French, post WWII, I can't say, at this point. One thing I can tell you is that it wasn't made by the French, or made FOR the French. Personally, I think its a parts gun, with no special collector value, but I'm not a Luger expert. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 20, 2019, 01:24 AM	#4
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	The reason the gun would have many different markings from different eras is because the early guns were put together with leftover parts right after the war by the French. The grips were said to be thought not original. Last edited by Surp; August 20, 2019 at 01:30 AM.

August 20, 2019, 01:47 AM	#5
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	I noticed the buffing as well but I also noticed it was mainly in spots where old markings had to be removed for new serial numbers and proof marks to be applied to old parts so that's why It didn't seem that abnormal to me. There's not a whole lot of information about French Lugers so I could be wrong. Last edited by Surp; August 20, 2019 at 02:20 AM.

August 21, 2019, 09:40 AM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The French would have applied multiple marks, if there's only one on the gun my guess would be it's a Frankenluger that was put together including a French marked receiver, but clearly it has a mix of commercial and military parts that were forcematched. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

August 19, 2019, 05:35 PM	#2
martin08 Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2009 Posts: 181	This Luger is so heavily buffed and refinished, that it has no original lines left. Maybe done for post-war security for the French? Sure, it could have been redone for that purpose. But it is not a new construction at the Mauser factory.

August 20, 2019, 02:18 AM	#6
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	This has been the only other firearm I've been able to find with that type of marking.

August 21, 2019, 11:28 AM	#8
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	all of the first ones were Frankenlugers put together with leftover parts. It also has a star on the top of the toggle as pictured. it's my understanding that the French weren't big on marking these and a lot of the later ones didn't have any markings from the French at all. look at this description this this guy gives of his. https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...t-Mauser-Luger https://pre98.com/shop/gone-but-not-...risp-stunning/

August 21, 2019, 05:21 PM	#9
GarandTd Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2016 Location: Rural PA Posts: 1,639	I noticed in the 2nd picture, there is an eagle on the left side of the barrel. I've been told I have an eagle eye. __________________ 22lr, 20 gauge, 8mm Mauser, 35 Remington, 30-06, 5.56x45/223, 9mm, 380acp

August 21, 2019, 11:25 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	I believe you have a parts gun. And while its not impossible the French might have used it, and put the star on it, its a cobbled together gun. I have found reports that the French did run some German factories until about the end of 46, and built perhaps as many as 50 Panther tanks and a couple hundred FW 190 fighter planes. They did make many thousands of Walthers, especially P.38s. I can find no reports of them producing Lugers. This doesn't mean that a handful of guns couldn't have been assembled with whatever parts they could find, but I can't find any mention of it being an organized thing like the production of P.38s The frame of the gun pictured says "Germany" on it. This marking was only applied to pre WWII guns intended for commercial sale. The chamber appears to have the date of 1939. The barrel and the forward part of the toggle assembly have the Nazi Eagle stamp, meaning that those parts (at the least) went through the Nazi system either before or during WWII. Also, the 3 digit serial number is suspect. The standard practice was 4 digit number that repeated in blocks with a letter added after the first block. And the normal place for the serial number was on the front frame below the barrel, not on the side of the chamber. ok, I checked the link, and I stand corrected. Apparently there were a number of Lugers put together under French direction. Wonder why none of my references mention that.... Germany stopped producing Lugers in 1942. The tooling was "repurposed" we would say today. Germany stopped making Lugers so they could use the tools and workers for other, more cost effective projects. When Mauser wanted to produce Lugers again, for civilian sale, they wound up buying the tooling from the Swiss, (who had stopped making Lugers a long time before, but still had the tooling in storage,) as it was the only existing tooling. This is why Mauser made the "Swiss Pattern" Lugers for a limited run in the 70s. The original German tooling was long gone. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 24, 2019, 01:12 AM	#11
Surp Member Join Date: June 28, 2014 Posts: 99	Not too many people do know anything about them as there's not much information but you can do a simple search and look on the Luger Wikipedia to find that they did make up to 4,000 of them with the beginning guns being made from leftover parts AKA Parts guns. Look under the post-war production section. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol Last edited by Surp; August 24, 2019 at 01:33 AM.