The ultimate weapon....The MP5 - Page 3

VUPDblue · September 28, 2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy

the local PD got them, took them to the local indoor range, and managed to shoot the hell out of the ceiling....

I don't know you or what department you're talking about, but I'm gonna have to call BS on this statement. The MP5 is probably one of the easiest SMGs to keep on-target, as well as having the least amount of climb. I've been behind the trigger of one long enough to know that it is such a favorable weapon to control...

Nnobby45 · September 28, 2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Im not sure why more officers are not issued the MP5. In fact, this weapon should be issued to all officers to carry around as their standard firearm.

Maybe when all officers are proficient with their semi-auto duty weapons, some can go thru the extensive training required for sub-gun. Police standards being what they are--- we're a long ways from seeing that.

In the mean time, a semi-auto AR15 or M4 version would be a real asset after proper training.

ctdonath · September 29, 2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Why would someone what to take a longer than pistol range shot with an MP5 anyway?

Well, that's why you'd want an M4 or some such instead - for if you DO have to take a longer shot, you have the proper tool to do so.

Nnobby45 · September 29, 2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

The MP5 is probably one of the easiest SMGs to keep on-target, as well as having the least amount of climb. I've been behind the trigger of one long enough to know that it is such a favorable weapon to control...

I'll take your word for that, since I've only fired one once.

What concerns me is how easy it is for a less than well trained person to ND 5 to 10 rounds down range before they know what happened. That's why I wouldn't be in a rush to put one in the patrol car of an officer with minimum semi-auto qualifications.

Yellowfin · September 29, 2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

The 30-30 and 308 have too much penetration for "trailer park" use. They are also a bad idea in the rare active shooter scenario where the officer might have to take a shot inside a mall or school.

110 or 125 grain HP .30-30 loads eliminate that problem, making the lever gun the superior tool. Slimmer, lighter, faster handling, and cheap enough to be deployed in mass numbers for PD's on a budget.

Firepower! · January 2, 2009, 12:59 AM

mp5 is the best SMG out there, and why are we comparing to M16?

David Hineline · January 2, 2009, 11:43 PM

The M16-9mm properly set up and controlled by someone skilled in full auto fire is a sweet pup. The light felt recoil of the MP5 fools a lot of first time users into thinking that low felt recoil means it is on target. Felt recoil and a straight back push does not mean the muzzle has risen and put you off target.

http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/m16-9mm.wmv

Cawnc4 · January 6, 2009, 02:21 PM

I didnt read the whole topic, just most of the first page. Some posters said 9mm was ineffective against body armor, that just isnt true. Sure there may be no penetration but all of the force behind the bullet is still there, which would probably knock them out if not, stun them.

Skans · January 6, 2009, 02:31 PM

UZI's are cheaper and parts are very available. What is an MP5 going to do that an UZI can't?

Cawnc4 · January 6, 2009, 02:34 PM

I would think that MP5s would be more controlable (although I havnt fired either) plus most people assosiate uzis with gangsters doing drivebys.

Skans · January 6, 2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

I would think that MP5s would be more controlable (although I havnt fired either) plus most people assosiate uzis with gangsters doing drivebys.

So, it's "classy" to shoot an MP5 and "gangsta" to shoot an UZI. The UZI is actually fairly accurate. I'm still trying to figure out what an MP5 actually does better than an UZI, other than being a little lighter and arguably a little more concealable.

TheManHimself · January 6, 2009, 05:43 PM

See, it's that kind of thinking that's the problem. Why should police not have access to better weapons just because they look scary? A lot of PDs still don't even have their AR15s in the front rack because the brass is worried about "offending the public". Screw that, police should carry the scariest, most effective weapons they can find; most criminals are basically cowards, and a little more intimidation factor might well reduce the possibility of a shooting being required, and the malevolent criminals who aren't cowards need to be killed ASAP when they're endangering the lives of innocents. If police kill a criminal in the act of committing a crime, they should be immune to court system revenge the same way a private citizen in a "castle law" state is.

Cawnc4 · January 6, 2009, 05:45 PM

Well I was planning on posting some pictures that I got off of google but they the first 10 pages of "uzi" "gangster with uzi" "gangster" and "MP5" turn up no usefull pictures.... I planned on getting pics of gangsters with uzis and normal ppl or cops/military with MP5 but found neither. Then I looked for pics of cops and gangsters that I could photoshop weapons in (although I dont have photoshop so I woulda just used paint

)

But personally when I think UZI the first thing that comes to mind is the scene from Gran Torino when the gangsters use 2 uzis and do a drive-by on the azn ppls house.

EDIT:
@TheManHimself I didnt say that they shouldnt be able to carry scary weapons, but I think that if the discision is between an MP5 and an Uzi I would choose the MP5 as the one that will cause the most civil unrest. AND I guarantee that the perps would sh3t there pants if the MP5 gets pointed at them, I know I would if I was doing anything to warrant the fireing of the weapon.

Hkmp5sd · January 6, 2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

What is an MP5 going to do that an UZI can't?

I have both the MP5 and an Uzi. The ergonomics of the MP5 are much better than the Uzi. The grip safety on the Uzi is a PITA. As the magazine fits in the grip of the Uzi, the grip is relatively fat. The selector switch on the MP5 is easier to switch back and forth between modes. The stock on the MP5 A3 is easier to open and close than the Uzi.

The Uzi is considered a 2nd Generation submachinegun and the MP5 is considered a 3rd Generation submachinegun. One fires from an open bolt and the other a closed bolt. About the only thing they have in common is the caliber.

Oh, yea. Did I mention the sights? Swapping magazines? Operating the Bolt?

aroundlsu · January 6, 2009, 06:33 PM

As Hkmp5sd said, the major difference is the Uzi fires from an open bolt. Closed bolt machine guns generally run smoother and are more accurate. I've fired both side by side. They are not even in the same league.

David Hineline · January 6, 2009, 11:29 PM

MP5s are not left handed friendly, cost of repair and supply of parts non existant. You can not shoot hot load SMG ammo for long in MP5 without breaking it. The open bolt close bolt accuracy only applies to the first round and is negated by training.

Your dept. can buy 4 UZI SMGs for the price of one MP5

Just because it's on a lot of swat posters and in magazines it is not all that it is cracked up to be.

Hkmp5sd · January 6, 2009, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Your dept. can buy 4 UZI SMGs for the price of one MP5

The one and only time I have ever seen a LEO with an Uzi was back in 1981 when Ronald Reagan was shot. But even the MP5 is on the way out. The current trend is toward M4s. I have one of those too (not a look alike, a real select fire Colt). Of all my machineguns, the easiest to control and keep on target with long bursts is the H&K MP5.

Naterstein · January 9, 2009, 09:54 AM

I got to shoot a mag thru the MP5 at the Knob Creek MG Shoot a few years back. I didnt think it was that heavy at all and even on full auto is was easy to control. Good times.

21CFA · January 14, 2009, 05:54 PM

Rolling along quite well for a necropost, don'cha think? The Glock idea was meant to introduce the select-fire Glock 9x19s for consideration in the easy-to-carry SMG category, not to give you any Red Chinese sources of any real machinery. (How many air-softs DO you own, anyway??) As for body-armor penetration, there are many 9x19 options available to LEO, and many of us repack our own hot loads. Sorry I missed the meeting. I had a U.S. Congressman to attend to. Maybe next time.

Firepower! · February 9, 2009, 09:11 AM

p99guy · February 9, 2009, 01:19 PM

Cawnc4, Thats just not how it works.....a IIIa vest is made specifcally for the threat of 9mm submachineguns, and then you get into the rifle armor levels. While it will feel like a bee sting/light punch, it more often than not really makes you mad. There is no backflips, being tossed against the wall, caving in you ribs etc that you have been lead to believe happens.
(I have 30 years of wearing body armor starting with the orignal Second Chance Model Y, and I'm a vest save..not a bullet lol, a Penski rental truck at approx 40mph)

like that Shootout at the Tyler Texas Courthouse, where a carry license holder shot the gunman at 5 feet twice between the shoulder blades
with a .45acp Govt Model colt..the gunman was wearing kevlar, and promptly
turned around and shot the would be hero to death with a semi auto AK47. no muss...no fuss.

Firepower! · February 9, 2009, 02:31 PM

When it comes to SMG, MP5 has no comparison.

January 2, 2009, 12:59 AM	#56
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	mp5k mp5 is the best SMG out there, and why are we comparing to M16?

January 6, 2009, 11:29 PM	#66
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	Downside to MP5s MP5s are not left handed friendly, cost of repair and supply of parts non existant. You can not shoot hot load SMG ammo for long in MP5 without breaking it. The open bolt close bolt accuracy only applies to the first round and is negated by training. Your dept. can buy 4 UZI SMGs for the price of one MP5 Just because it's on a lot of swat posters and in magazines it is not all that it is cracked up to be.

January 14, 2009, 05:54 PM	#69
21CFA Junior member Join Date: September 19, 2005 Posts: 146	MrPX Rolling along quite well for a necropost, don'cha think? The Glock idea was meant to introduce the select-fire Glock 9x19s for consideration in the easy-to-carry SMG category, not to give you any Red Chinese sources of any real machinery. (How many air-softs DO you own, anyway??) As for body-armor penetration, there are many 9x19 options available to LEO, and many of us repack our own hot loads. Sorry I missed the meeting. I had a U.S. Congressman to attend to. Maybe next time.

February 9, 2009, 01:19 PM	#71
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	Cawnc4, Thats just not how it works.....a IIIa vest is made specifcally for the threat of 9mm submachineguns, and then you get into the rifle armor levels. While it will feel like a bee sting/light punch, it more often than not really makes you mad. There is no backflips, being tossed against the wall, caving in you ribs etc that you have been lead to believe happens. (I have 30 years of wearing body armor starting with the orignal Second Chance Model Y, and I'm a vest save..not a bullet lol, a Penski rental truck at approx 40mph) like that Shootout at the Tyler Texas Courthouse, where a carry license holder shot the gunman at 5 feet twice between the shoulder blades with a .45acp Govt Model colt..the gunman was wearing kevlar, and promptly turned around and shot the would be hero to death with a semi auto AK47. no muss...no fuss. __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

January 2, 2009, 11:43 PM	#57
David Hineline Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 1999 Location: South Sioux City, Nebraska Posts: 704	The M16-9mm properly set up and controlled by someone skilled in full auto fire is a sweet pup. The light felt recoil of the MP5 fools a lot of first time users into thinking that low felt recoil means it is on target. Felt recoil and a straight back push does not mean the muzzle has risen and put you off target. http://myweb.cableone.net/uziforme/m16-9mm.wmv

January 6, 2009, 02:21 PM	#58
Cawnc4 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	I didnt read the whole topic, just most of the first page. Some posters said 9mm was ineffective against body armor, that just isnt true. Sure there may be no penetration but all of the force behind the bullet is still there, which would probably knock them out if not, stun them.

January 6, 2009, 02:31 PM	#59
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	UZI's are cheaper and parts are very available. What is an MP5 going to do that an UZI can't?

January 6, 2009, 02:34 PM	#60
Cawnc4 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	I would think that MP5s would be more controlable (although I havnt fired either) plus most people assosiate uzis with gangsters doing drivebys.

January 6, 2009, 05:43 PM	#62
TheManHimself Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2008 Posts: 730	See, it's that kind of thinking that's the problem. Why should police not have access to better weapons just because they look scary? A lot of PDs still don't even have their AR15s in the front rack because the brass is worried about "offending the public". Screw that, police should carry the scariest, most effective weapons they can find; most criminals are basically cowards, and a little more intimidation factor might well reduce the possibility of a shooting being required, and the malevolent criminals who aren't cowards need to be killed ASAP when they're endangering the lives of innocents. If police kill a criminal in the act of committing a crime, they should be immune to court system revenge the same way a private citizen in a "castle law" state is.

January 6, 2009, 05:45 PM	#63
Cawnc4 Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Posts: 46	Well I was planning on posting some pictures that I got off of google but they the first 10 pages of "uzi" "gangster with uzi" "gangster" and "MP5" turn up no usefull pictures.... I planned on getting pics of gangsters with uzis and normal ppl or cops/military with MP5 but found neither. Then I looked for pics of cops and gangsters that I could photoshop weapons in (although I dont have photoshop so I woulda just used paint ) But personally when I think UZI the first thing that comes to mind is the scene from Gran Torino when the gangsters use 2 uzis and do a drive-by on the azn ppls house. EDIT: @TheManHimself I didnt say that they shouldnt be able to carry scary weapons, but I think that if the discision is between an MP5 and an Uzi I would choose the MP5 as the one that will cause the most civil unrest. AND I guarantee that the perps would sh3t there pants if the MP5 gets pointed at them, I know I would if I was doing anything to warrant the fireing of the weapon.

January 6, 2009, 06:33 PM	#65
aroundlsu Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 156	As Hkmp5sd said, the major difference is the Uzi fires from an open bolt. Closed bolt machine guns generally run smoother and are more accurate. I've fired both side by side. They are not even in the same league.

January 9, 2009, 09:54 AM	#68
Naterstein Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Location: Central KY Posts: 151	I got to shoot a mag thru the MP5 at the Knob Creek MG Shoot a few years back. I didnt think it was that heavy at all and even on full auto is was easy to control. Good times.

February 9, 2009, 09:11 AM	#70
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109

February 9, 2009, 02:31 PM	#72
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	When it comes to SMG, MP5 has no comparison.