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Old April 3, 2014, 03:44 PM   #26
Sevens
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For many of us, frugality is a sport... a hobby, even. Especially with handloaders. But I am a fairly simple creature and I've even been clinically diagnosed as a "clear thinker." (wow, lot of good that marriage counseling did for me...!)

That means that for me and my uses, this is a simple risk/reward equation.

Brothers, I love me some cartridge brass. I probably have dreams about it. I pile it up in EVERY caliber I run and a few I don't. I love to re-use it and reload it, and I find it ever more interesting when I can really get some repetitions out it. I've got some .38 Special pieces that I've loaded a silly number of times.

But it always starts out with the simple risk/reward equation. A few cents for a piece of brass (and jeez, we're talking 9mm here, I've got two trees and a bush in the back yard that grows it in the spring) versus CATASTROPHIC FAILURE and unforgettable event.

I'm replacing the barrel or I breaking off my love affair with the ignorant little tupperware pistol that is bulging my brass. That's 35,000 PSI right there, and it lights off near your face. I'm not chasing down an extra tool, and re-handling corrupt cartridge brass (twice) just to feed that silly little pistol.
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Old April 3, 2014, 03:57 PM   #27
BigJimP
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I'm not sure its logical....but I've run out of Universal in my 9mm loads as well...after I couldn't find TiteGroup

...and I tried Unique ( too bulky, doesn't meter well - too big a flake)
...I tried Longshot ( snappy recoil)
....I haven't seen any TiteGroup for sale in 2 years....

..found a recipe for Hodgdon Clays on Hodgdon's site.../ and despite it being a faster powder than Universal - Clays seems to be giving me a lot less recoil. Recipe is 3.7 min and 3.9gr max so you need to be careful with it / but a Dillon 650 will load it very well ! I've been loading them at max recipe, 3.9 grains with very good results.

Case bulge is a gun issue / I'm not sure you'll fix it with a different powder...
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Old April 4, 2014, 05:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Case bulge is a gun issue / I'm not sure you'll fix it with a different powder...
I agree. I was able to get it to stop almost completely by loading it down but it was too far down. So much so that two of my other guns were not cycling fully. I'm not going to take the time to load some for one gun and something different for all the others and make sure to keep them all separate and loaded in the right gun... Fooey!

BTW, I throw all of the bulged cases out. I can't imagine reloading and trusting a case that looks like the one above. It's like Sevens said, there is 35,000 pounds of face eating pressure there. Even when I load then down, I still take the time to look very closely at each one to see that there is no damage. I don't have time for that nonsense. Time for a new gun!!! I hate when that happens. Who doesn't like a good excuse to get a new gun?

I'll have to go back and read all of the posts again. We spent so much time on the bulge, I forgot to take note of my main interest, a different powder. Even when I get a new gun, I still would like to try a different powder.

Thank you again
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Old April 4, 2014, 07:06 AM   #29
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Headgear,

What BigJimP said about Clays matches my experience with it. You can't use very much, but that also means lower muzzle pressure by the time the bullet base exits, and that means less overall recoil. The only drawback is you can't load to very high velocity without the peak pressure getting too high.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
…But I am a fairly simple creature and I've even been clinically diagnosed as a "clear thinker." (wow, lot of good that marriage counseling did for me...!
Yikes! A supposedly qualified marriage counselor actually said that about a husband in front of an unhappy wife? Divorce councilor would be a better title. I'm going to remember that story!
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Old April 4, 2014, 09:12 AM   #30
expendable
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These days it seems more like we are trying to tailer whatever powder we can find to the cartridge, instead of picking the most appropriate powder for the load we are trying to achieve.

It would help if we knew what powders are available to you.
I've used Unique,Clays,231/HP38,Power pistol,WSF,WST,Bullseye,Tight Group and probably others I have forgotten in 9mm, they will all work but usually for different types of loads.

Right now I'm loading WSF meters good and is fairly clean, but when it's gone I will probably just have to use what I can find and work with it.

On a side note have you contacted S&W about the bulged cases, it is a known issue and is talked about on the S&W forum.
Some people there have sent there guns in and had the barrels replaced under warranty

Kurt
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Old April 4, 2014, 10:35 AM   #31
DennRN
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Got some range time with mine a few days ago. Brass has seen a light tumble but otherwise untouched. I have not observed any case bulge from this load but your Shield may differ.
Components were Alliant Power Pistol, Xtreme 124gr plated, PMC brass (mostly), CCI small pistol primers.


This load data is my own, and I take no responsibility for any accidents, mishaps, property damage or injuries resulting from the use of my this information.

124 gr Xtreme RN 6.0 gr PP, 1.15 COL
124 gr Xtreme HP 6.0 gr PP, 1.10 COL

(OF NOTE: FMJ have higher resistance than plated or lead, so powder charges should be decreased accordingly)

9mm RN 1.15 COL for scale


Here is my target at approx 30 feet using HP load, M&P Shield, unsupported slow fire. (Center and Lower Left)

Lower right is the same load at approx 60 feet, Keltec Sub 2000, iron sights, unsupported slow fire.

This powder meters well, burns relatively clean at full power charges, and is pretty accurate even with sub premium projectiles like the ones I'm using.
Cons are increased report dB over other common powders, and increased muzzle flash.
Good luck finding this powder in stock though...
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Old April 4, 2014, 03:24 PM   #32
WESHOOT2
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I use WAP

I am firmly in the "if it bulged so much it needs a BulgeBuster I don't want to use it again" camp.

I am also firmly in the "slower burn rate powders in 9x19 change the pressure curve" camp.
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Old April 7, 2014, 02:51 PM   #33
Unclenick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expendable
On a side note have you contacted S&W about the bulged cases, it is a known issue and is talked about on the S&W forum.
Some people there have sent there guns in and had the barrels replaced under warranty
Do you know that the replacement barrels alone solve the problem? Or do they make some other mod? I'm just thinking out loud here that if the replacement barrel drops in, he might be able to return just the barrel to S&W and avoid the shipping expense involved in returning the whole pistol.


DennRN,

Please read this required post for publishing loads outside of published load limits. In this instance, however, it is just for future reference, as your load is over 6% below the published Alliant maximum load for a jacketed 124 grain bullet with the same powder. That puts you just below the midpoint (assuming -10% starting load) of that published jacketed load's middle range, and the jacketed load range middle point is where Berry says the normal maximums for their bullets lie. So you're not really above a published maximum, albeit indirectly so.
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Old April 7, 2014, 03:44 PM   #34
expendable
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Unclenick

I'm not sure if that is all they did, but the couple I remember they did at least replace the barrel.
I doubt S&W would just swap out a barrel without test firing it so I would think they would require the whole gun to be shipped, the good thing is S&W is pretty good about covering shipping both ways.

One guy even opened the fired casing that was sent with the gun and it was bulged too, I never open those.

Kurt
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Old April 7, 2014, 04:21 PM   #35
Mr.RevolverGuy
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I have test fired 6 S&W sheilds with many different SAAMI spec loads and have not experienced bulging. I highly recommend you send this back to S&W.
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Old April 8, 2014, 04:51 AM   #36
steve4102
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Headgear, do the Google on the S&W Shield and case bulge. You will find a lot of owners with the same problem, many have sent the firearm back to S&W for barrel replacement.

https://www.google.com/search?q=S%26...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old April 9, 2014, 05:49 AM   #37
Headgear
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Its odd to me that they don't all do it. I liked my Shield so much that I got one for my wife and recommended it to a friend. All three of them do it. Just my luck. Thanks for the info. I'll sure be sending ours back but what will I carry now till they get back since its getting into T shirt weather? Hmmmm. I know! I have to try a different one. Rats, I hate that! Oh well, I'll just have go shopping.
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Old April 12, 2014, 08:32 PM   #38
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I know this is a 9mm thread, but have been running into the same issues with ,40S&W in my friend/neighbors Smith & Wesson VX40( if I recall).
Using 150,165 gr. Hollowpoints with Hodgons Long Shot.
I keep well under max loads!!! I'll have to go to the basement and look at the box to recall exact charge weight.

Anyways, not max charge, and getting bulged casings from a Smith & Wesson.


Edit...

I shoot a Hi Point in .40S&W and did do full power charge weights with the Long Shot, and did not get any bulged casings with this combo.
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Old April 14, 2014, 05:00 AM   #39
Headgear
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I down loaded my charges to try to get the bulging to stop and got it down to were the bulging is almost gone but my other guns like a PPQ, Beretta, G19 and others won't cycle.
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Old April 14, 2014, 05:28 AM   #40
LE-28
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I've been using 5.5gr of Longshot in my Shield and haven't noticed any bulging. I never had a problem with it in my Shield or any other 9mm I have.

At least I'll say this, if I am getting bulged cases my RCBS dies are taking it all back out because I have no jamming problems.

Longshot has to loaded warm to hot to get it to burn consistently and clean but you did say that was what you wanted. 5.5gr is an accurate load in my Shield at 1.135" OAL but it does recoil a tad more.
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Old April 14, 2014, 03:17 PM   #41
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send it back

Include a note concerning the bulged case issue.
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Old April 15, 2014, 08:18 AM   #42
Don P
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I'll ask, how many cases are looking like the one in the photo? All, some, just a few. I use Titegroup and its a hot fast powder and clean.
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