period correct "brass"

parsley.farm · February 20, 2013, 08:35 PM

Which original manufacturers actually made "brass" frame revolvers?

I've read that it was not brass at all, that it was 'gun-metal'. Was 'gun-metal' shiny when it was new? or did it look similar to what these old guns look like today?

Is the "brass" used in making modern replicas actually brass, and why don't they make them from 'gun-metal' today?

Also, was the Henry rifle made with the same 'gun-metal'?

pfmp

"You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

**4V50 Gary** · February 20, 2013, 08:54 PM

It was during the Civil War when some Confederate manufacturers resorted to making gunframes out of brass.

The only Union brass frame guns I am aware of is the Henry Rifle and the Gatling gun.

Hawg · February 20, 2013, 09:53 PM

None of the major manufacturers made brass frames. Nobody made a brass frame .44. Most Confederate revolvers were brass or rather as you stated gunmetal which was often called red brass. It was a bronze alloy that was heavy on copper. Some of the Confederate guns may well have been made from pure brass but the majority were gunmetal or wrought iron. Modern repros use brass which isn't as strong as red brass. I believe an original .36 revolver made from red brass would hold up to heavy loads but a .44 wouldn't which is why I believe nobody made a brass .44, they knew they wouldn't hold up to heavy loads. Modern .36 repros won't hold up to heavy loads. I think modern manufacturers use brass because its cheaper. AFAIK the Henry did use a brass receiver.

**4V50 Gary** · February 20, 2013, 10:29 PM

I should add that most Civil War Henrys were brass frame. There were a handful of iron frame ones too.

BerdanSS · February 21, 2013, 12:06 PM

so with the 1860 henerys...which is actually "stronger" and will last longer? the brass or the "early" type Iron framed? (which I believe on the new reproductions isn't really iron is it? Or does it even really make a difference between the two?

Hawg · February 21, 2013, 06:26 PM

I don't think it will make any difference on the new guns but the steel frame would be lighter.

parsley.farm · February 22, 2013, 05:16 AM

So what you are saying is...the steel frame reproduction 1860 Henry will be lighter than the iron frame original 1860...and both of these will be stronger than the 1866 "brass" framed Yellowboy?

pfmp
"You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

parsley.farm · February 22, 2013, 05:28 AM

So the original/real Spiller & Burr was a "brass" framed copy of the Eli Whitney iron? framed revolver??? Was there ever an iron?steel? framed Spiller & Burr? Was the Eli Whitney revolver available in Army(.44) and Navy(.36) calibers?

So the original/real Griswold & Gunnison was a "brass" framed "copy" of the Colt 1851 Navy (all except for the round barrel on the Griswold?) Was there ever an iron?/steel? framed Griswold?

I've read a number of "internet experts" that seem to say there are "exact" copies of the Colt 1851 and the Remington New Model (1858) that were made in the South of "Brass". I find no real/original examples of this? Is this just a bunch of hooey?

pfmp
"You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

Hawg · February 22, 2013, 05:40 AM

I dunno if the modern steel frame Henry is lighter than the original iron or not. Steel is stronger than brass but with the pressures involved it won't make any difference. The toggles in the action will give out before the frame does.
Whitneys were all .36, no iron frame S&B's, no iron frame G&G's. Schneider & Glassick made a 51 copy in brass but there's only three known and one of them is iron. No brass Remington copies.

February 20, 2013, 08:35 PM	#1
parsley.farm Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2013 Posts: 11	period correct "brass" Which original manufacturers actually made "brass" frame revolvers? I've read that it was not brass at all, that it was 'gun-metal'. Was 'gun-metal' shiny when it was new? or did it look similar to what these old guns look like today? Is the "brass" used in making modern replicas actually brass, and why don't they make them from 'gun-metal' today? Also, was the Henry rifle made with the same 'gun-metal'? pfmp "You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

February 20, 2013, 08:54 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	It was during the Civil War when some Confederate manufacturers resorted to making gunframes out of brass. The only Union brass frame guns I am aware of is the Henry Rifle and the Gatling gun. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 20, 2013, 10:29 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	I should add that most Civil War Henrys were brass frame. There were a handful of iron frame ones too. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 22, 2013, 05:16 AM	#7
parsley.farm Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2013 Posts: 11	1860/1866 So what you are saying is...the steel frame reproduction 1860 Henry will be lighter than the iron frame original 1860...and both of these will be stronger than the 1866 "brass" framed Yellowboy? pfmp "You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

February 22, 2013, 05:28 AM	#8
parsley.farm Junior Member Join Date: February 11, 2013 Posts: 11	Real/Fantasy So the original/real Spiller & Burr was a "brass" framed copy of the Eli Whitney iron? framed revolver??? Was there ever an iron?steel? framed Spiller & Burr? Was the Eli Whitney revolver available in Army(.44) and Navy(.36) calibers? So the original/real Griswold & Gunnison was a "brass" framed "copy" of the Colt 1851 Navy (all except for the round barrel on the Griswold?) Was there ever an iron?/steel? framed Griswold? I've read a number of "internet experts" that seem to say there are "exact" copies of the Colt 1851 and the Remington New Model (1858) that were made in the South of "Brass". I find no real/original examples of this? Is this just a bunch of hooey? pfmp "You know what your problem is, it's that you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies." -Steve Martin

February 20, 2013, 09:53 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	None of the major manufacturers made brass frames. Nobody made a brass frame .44. Most Confederate revolvers were brass or rather as you stated gunmetal which was often called red brass. It was a bronze alloy that was heavy on copper. Some of the Confederate guns may well have been made from pure brass but the majority were gunmetal or wrought iron. Modern repros use brass which isn't as strong as red brass. I believe an original .36 revolver made from red brass would hold up to heavy loads but a .44 wouldn't which is why I believe nobody made a brass .44, they knew they wouldn't hold up to heavy loads. Modern .36 repros won't hold up to heavy loads. I think modern manufacturers use brass because its cheaper. AFAIK the Henry did use a brass receiver.

February 21, 2013, 12:06 PM	#5
BerdanSS Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Location: to close to other houses Posts: 1,176	so with the 1860 henerys...which is actually "stronger" and will last longer? the brass or the "early" type Iron framed? (which I believe on the new reproductions isn't really iron is it? Or does it even really make a difference between the two?

February 21, 2013, 06:26 PM	#6
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I don't think it will make any difference on the new guns but the steel frame would be lighter.

February 22, 2013, 05:40 AM	#9
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I dunno if the modern steel frame Henry is lighter than the original iron or not. Steel is stronger than brass but with the pressures involved it won't make any difference. The toggles in the action will give out before the frame does. Whitneys were all .36, no iron frame S&B's, no iron frame G&G's. Schneider & Glassick made a 51 copy in brass but there's only three known and one of them is iron. No brass Remington copies.