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August 1, 2013, 12:23 AM | #101 |
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I googled pennsylvania and in 2012 there were 935000 hunting license sold.
It also said that there have been 180,000 less deer harvested each year since 2002 until 2012. It says because less and less hunters. Well that art to help numbers and mature animals. Sad for our sport though. Last edited by BuckRub; August 1, 2013 at 12:33 AM. |
August 1, 2013, 08:17 AM | #102 | |
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Quote:
U are really not in central TX.... Like me..the edge of East TX....Yes..I live north of FF..I hunt the Trinty river bottoms.... We should meet up sometime....
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August 1, 2013, 08:42 AM | #103 | |
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antler point restrictions
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Most APRs don't stop them from putting a "modest" buck in their freezer. They stop them from putting BABY bucks in the freezer. I would tend to disagree with the western PA 4 pt per antler restriction as too many bucks will take too long getting there. That should be a temporary measure to build population in an area with too few bucks. Otherwise, no one could argue that a 6 point of a virtually any incarnation isn't "modest". Plus, even the 4-pt/per restriction doesn't require a deer to be a "trophy". I've seen plenty of 8 points that wouldn't have measured 80 inches if anyone had even bothered to measure. Even with the 4-pt/per restriction, your argument only has merit for the first 2 or 3 years of the restriction, at most. After those years, there will be just as many (if not more) eligible bucks as there used to be "modest" bucks, except for the very few that will never grow that big. Almost all bucks will eventually grow at least a small 8-pt rack. I note that NY and PA agree that almost all bucks older than 6 months breed, most bucks of all ages only sire one set of offspring per year and the vast majority of bucks killed are killed AFTER the breeding season. Therefore, whatever deer gets killed has little or no effect on breeding. They've all already ensured that their genes will be around next year. Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; August 1, 2013 at 09:00 AM. |
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August 1, 2013, 09:01 AM | #104 | |
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August 1, 2013, 10:42 AM | #105 |
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Question.... Who has the best chance of getting more mature bucks.... Those with antler restrictions or those without? ....................... That's what I thought.... And the place with the most mature bucks is where I wanna hunt.....
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August 1, 2013, 11:43 AM | #106 | |
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Make no mistake, our recent APR's were driven by marketing, and not traditional management factors. Game commission decided trophy hunting was more important that meat hunting for the future of the sport. The need to control road kill and crop damage is now done with excessive use of doe tags. Million or so PA hunters reported legally taking 336,200 deer last year. Down from 1.3M harvesting 430K in 1998, but our Game folks see gold in the fact a handful of bucks have bigger racks.
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August 1, 2013, 12:16 PM | #107 |
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I'm not much of a whitetail hunter, as I've only shot one in my life, but this subject got me doing some quick net searches and I came up with this article from QDMA.
http://www.qdma.com/articles/qdmas-p...r-restrictions Click on the link in the article for the complete pdf. They have some good info in there for you whitetail guys.
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August 1, 2013, 12:17 PM | #108 |
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Tom, that's a different problem all together. Still, protecting the young bucks only limits the number available for the first 2 or 3 years, at most.
Ultimately, I revert back to question #2 above. Regardless of your opinion of APRs, what is the better idea that is workable for the uneducated (on matters of deer biology/aging/etc.) average hunter?
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August 1, 2013, 06:43 PM | #109 | |
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For the promise of bigger bucks (and more tag/tourist money) in the future, that's why.
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August 1, 2013, 06:50 PM | #110 |
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Yes, but those meat hunters are 75-85% likely to see a doe first anyway and there are only fewer buck available for the first 2 or 3 years.
Besides, my main point is still... what is the better idea that is workable for the uneducated (on matters of deer biology/aging/etc.) average hunter?
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August 1, 2013, 07:14 PM | #111 |
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Your oft-repeated (and I'm sure sincere) question assumes that APR is better than what existed previously.
Percentages mean nothing to a man looking to put the winter's meat away. Shootable deer, as opportunity presents them, mean everything.
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People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice. Last edited by Sarge; August 1, 2013 at 07:35 PM. Reason: sp |
August 1, 2013, 08:12 PM | #112 | |
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August 1, 2013, 08:27 PM | #113 |
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Where I live in Texas on a normal day in the yard I'm liable to see about60 deer before noon and about 1 out of 5-6 are bucks. If I go to field behind my house I will see about 100 deer at a single time scattered out and same buck to doe ratio. If I'm in yard I usually find about a 2-3 year old doe and drop her.
I agree with Sarge, I could care less about numbers of any kind and sometimes I believe if you put too much faith in them, they'll mislead you on purpose. I usually put about 7-8 does in the freezer every year. Every year deer do what they do. They multiply. They also have less land every year for them to live in due to clear cutting or individuals wanting pasture land for cattle. Here in Texas anyhow. Last edited by BuckRub; August 1, 2013 at 08:51 PM. |
August 1, 2013, 08:59 PM | #114 |
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Brian, I do not see how most of the breeding is done by yearling bucks. From what I see where I hunt, the yearling bucks are running scared once the rut gets cranked up.
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August 1, 2013, 09:03 PM | #115 |
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I think one aspect of this is that people just don't like being told what to do even if it is a good idea.
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August 1, 2013, 09:12 PM | #116 |
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I could say something about doing something because its a good idea but I'm gonna sit here and bite my toungue.
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August 1, 2013, 09:12 PM | #117 |
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I dont mind being told what to do if it actually made sense.
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August 1, 2013, 09:14 PM | #118 | ||
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Quote:
I guess I shouldn't say "most" but it's certainly very substantial. Think about it. If the average buck doesn't survive past 2 years and there are more doe around than any mature bucks could possibly hope to corral, how will the doe get bred? They'll get bred by yearlings and a whole bunch of them do. Quote:
I want to know what other folks, who don't like APRs, think would be better. It is, quite honestly, hard for me to believe that anyone thinks the free-for-all that otherwise happens is better. I know what happens with the free-for-all. Virtually no big bucks, very few average bucks, lots of button bucks and spikes and a bazillion doe. The objection to the APRs really makes no sense to me. The number of bucks who won't meet the minimum criteria is extremely tiny. The number of deer available for "meat hunters" is only decreased for the first 2 or 3 years and then ONLY by the tiny amount of bucks that are "in between" antlerless and mature and there's absolutely, positively NO WAY the overall population is diminished.
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August 1, 2013, 09:17 PM | #119 |
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Well, if the goal is to have larger bucks you can't shoot all the small ones.
If you have no interest in having larger bucks that is a philosophical difference of opinion in the goal. |
August 1, 2013, 09:18 PM | #120 |
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More doe = better quality meat for freezer. Not everyone is a trophy hunter.
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August 1, 2013, 09:27 PM | #121 | |
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August 1, 2013, 10:01 PM | #122 |
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I could care less about APRs. I'm shooting does.
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August 1, 2013, 10:16 PM | #123 |
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Just googled "pros and cons of APR". Some good points but my opinion the cons are worse than the pros. Glad where I live we don't have to worry bout it.
Well let me explain. If I was a hunter and my only concern was to bag a bigger buck then it would be great. But from what I read about helping hunting as a whole for all hunters who it affects then NO I don't see where it shows no positive. It hurts our sport. Last edited by BuckRub; August 1, 2013 at 10:44 PM. |
August 1, 2013, 10:44 PM | #124 |
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What are u talkin bout? U do have restrictions.....Plus how do u put up that many do for yourself legally?
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August 1, 2013, 10:48 PM | #125 |
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I've read the pros and cons, thoroughly. I try not to have an uninformed opinion.
Most of the cons are either temporary or imaginary. The only folks who are bothered, long term, by APRs are the "If it's brown, it's down!" crowd. That has nothing to do with doe hunting either. That has to do with hunters who can't stand to let any deer walk by without killing it. APRs increase the deer population. If you want a better chance to kill a deer, APRs give it to you except for that first year or two, when your odds might be reduced by 20% or so. After that second year, every hunter has a better chance to kill a deer and any hunter who wants to shoot a big buck has a MUCH better chance. There will be MORE deer so the potential of being forced to let one walk matters less because there are more chances for everybody. I just don't get the objection. If you're exclusively a doe hunter, APRs don't have any negative effect on you and probably have a positive effect, as other guys will be after the bigger bucks and won't bother your doe. The general population increases, including both genders. If you're a trophy hunter, they're good for you. If you're a "I don't mind letting a little guy walk and I'll sometimes shoot a doe." kind of hunter, they're either positive or have no effect on you. If you're a "If it's brown, it's down!" hunter, they're bad for you. 1 group out of 4 negative. 3 out of 4 positive or no effect.
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