bill of sale form

cjmmc · July 2, 2013, 03:35 PM

does anyone have a good bill of sale form they use for doing ftf gun trades or sale? can someone please link me one?

Pahoo · July 2, 2013, 03:43 PM

If you want hard paper, I bought some from Office Max but I suppose any office supply store will have them. Should be fairly easy to find. As far as the internet, I'm sure you can come up with one, if you Bing or Google it. ...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...ts&FORM=RESTAB

Be Safe !!!

Dixie Gunsmithing · July 2, 2013, 05:17 PM

I think Brownell's has these now, as I do know they still have the tags, but I think they have a line of everything including letterheads and envelopes.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 2, 2013, 07:37 PM

Everything is on the Internet.

http://www.freebillofsaleform.org/gun.html

http://www.billofsale-form.com/firea...-of-sale-form/

colbad · July 2, 2013, 09:39 PM

Use a 4473. Although it is a dealer form, you show due diligence using it to ensuring all is legit. That is assuming you want to be legit. I also shoot a photo with my iphone of the DL. If someone does not want to provide I don't sell. Don't need the money that bad to get jammed up later.

cjmmc · July 2, 2013, 10:26 PM

thanks

JimmyR · July 3, 2013, 03:34 AM

This is the one I use. I make 2 copies, (one for me and one for the other party), and we fill out our respective sections, then switch.

Gbro · July 3, 2013, 09:26 AM

I made up a transfer form that i keep on my web site. Feel free and if their is something i should change let me know.
Firearms Transfer Form

wayneinFL · July 3, 2013, 09:38 AM

Personally, I don't like handing out my DL to a stranger, and I'm not alone. Do what you want, it's your sale, but if you're buying or selling an item and require a BOS or a DL, let the other party know before you meet.

I had a buyer a couple of months ago who wheedled me down $100, had me drive 20 minutes to meet him, then asked to "see" a copy of my DL. I let him do it, and he snapped a picture of it with his phone without asking me. I consider that to be rude.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 3, 2013, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayneinFL

I had a buyer a couple of months ago who wheedled me down $100, had me drive 20 minutes to meet him, then asked to "see" a copy of my DL. I let him do it, and he snapped a picture of it with his phone without asking me. I consider that to be rude.

I consider that worse than rude, and at that point I would have cancelled the sale. Instantly, no Mulligans.

BigD_in_FL · July 3, 2013, 07:20 PM

I don't do BOS for private FTF sales - either selling or buying

JimmyR · July 3, 2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigD_in_FL

I don't do BOS for private FTF sales - either selling or buying

I used to do them all the time, now I only do them when asked. I'm not too picky, and as I am not required to, I normally don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayneinFL

Personally, I don't like handing out my DL to a stranger, and I'm not alone.

I do a lot of FTF sales, and I look at a DL every time. I had a guy that showed up to buy a pistol from me that was arranged through a person who responded to my ad on Armslist (deal was, if the friend didn't buy the gun, the person who responded to my listing would). So I ask for ID, since I live on the boundary between IN and KY. The guy pulls out a local PD ID card.

Still asked to see his DL though, and he obliged. If I am going to make a sale to an individual, it's my obligation to make sure I am following the law- no out of state sales without a dealer. Besides, it's better than asking for mail...

**Aguila Blanca** · July 4, 2013, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyR

So I ask for ID, since I live on the boundary between IN and KY. The guy pulls out a local PD ID card. Still asked to see his DL though, and he obliged. If I am going to make a sale to an individual, it's my obligation to make sure I am following the law- no out of state sales without a dealer. Besides, it's better than asking for mail...

Given that you live near a state border, I don't blame you for asking for ID. However, as to your comment about being sure you follow the law, the law does not require you to ask for or verify ID. The law says you may not sell to someone you know or reasonably believe is prohibited. Nothing in the law tells us what the basis for that knowledge or belief has to be.

JimmyR · July 4, 2013, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Given that you live near a state border, I don't blame you for asking for ID. However, as to your comment about being sure you follow the law, the law does not require you to ask for or verify ID. The law says you may not sell to someone you know or reasonably believe is prohibited. Nothing in the law tells us what the basis for that knowledge or belief has to be.

After reviewing the US Code, you are right, I don't HAVE to verify their state of residence.

That said, I almost put NOT checking residency in the same catagory as the Ms. Magazine blog post about Heidi Yewman getting a firearm, and doing the absolute minimum legally required to carry it. She has been blasted (rightly so, I might add) for bringing a weapon into her home with no understanding of it, and has refused to seek any out (except for a LEO during a traffic stop).

I guess, for me, I would rather verify the information that is easily accessible (age and residency) than simply rely on a gut instinct. If that costs me a sale/purchase of a firearm, then I guess I will be ok with that.

colbad · July 4, 2013, 11:29 PM

You and me think alike Jimmy R. It is those that try to circumvent the intended purpose of the law with "blinders" and argue the fine points of what they are "legally" required to do that cause issues for the rest of us gun owners.

Here near the AZ border I could sell guns all day long to illegal Mexicans by arguing "how am I to know they are illegal" and play dumb. If on those very rare occasions I actually sell something out of my personal collection, its my sale, my rules, take it or leave it. The few things I have actually sold were nothing special that could not be obtained from a FFL. Not wanting to provide me with information that makes me feel comfortable raises a red flag that the person is probably not able to get past the NICS check. If one just does what is the right thing the rest takes care of itself.

**Aguila Blanca** · July 5, 2013, 05:56 AM

As I wrote, for those who live near state borders I have no problem with asking to see a driver's license to prove same-state residency. Beyond that, you need to do nothing, and even that is (as I wrote) more than the law actually requires.

I don't live near a state border. However, I live in an area where regional accents can be rather strong, and if I were confronted with a buyer whose accent clearly indicated that "Yer not from 'round hyar, are you?" I suppose I would then ask to see a driver's license, too. The law is basically telling you to have your antennae out, and a "furrin' " accent would be one of those factors that could lead a seller to reasonably believe the buyer might not be eligible.

But the law is really addressing prohibited persons, not interstate sales. So a buyer has a driver's license from your state. How do you know he/she isn't an ex-convict, or that he/she doesn't have a protective order against him/her? If your state doesn't require a carry permit or FOID to even buy a handgun, there's no document available that says "I am not a convict," and there's no document available that says "This person is not subject to a restraining order."

I was not advocating "circumventing" anything, and I rather resent colbad's suggestion that I was advocating such. This is an open discussion, and I posted to clarify what the law actually REQUIRES. How far you wish to go beyond what the law requires is a matter of personal preference. Since the original question asked about bills of sale, it should be recognized that, while a BOS might make you feel more comfortable, it is not required by law and it WILL reduce the pool of potential buyers if you insist on one because I know I am not the only member of this forum whose position is that if I wanted a paper trail I'd just buy from an FFL. Not because I wish to circumvent any laws, but because the government is so much into our private business that I simply don't feel inclined to give up any more privacy than I am required by law to give up.

wayneinFL · July 5, 2013, 06:31 AM

Morally, I see residence as far less important an issue than whether the buyer is a felon. If you're that worried about geography, you should be taking the buyer to a dealer and getting a background check, because you should be a whole lot more worried about that.

JimmyR · July 5, 2013, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wayneinFL

Morally, I see residence as far less important an issue than whether the buyer is a felon. If you're that worried about geography, you should be taking the buyer to a dealer and getting a background check, because you should be a whole lot more worried about that.

Wayne, I struggle with this myself. Personally, I choose to confirm residency because it IS easy to verify, whereas getting a background check is slightly more difficult and more costly. Generally, I will also ask for a LTCH, since I know that, at least at some point in the past, the person was legally able to purchase a handgun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Since the original question asked about bills of sale, it should be recognized that, while a BOS might make you feel more comfortable, it is not required by law

^^THIS^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

and it WILL reduce the pool of potential buyers if you insist on one because I know I am not the only member of this forum whose position is that if I wanted a paper trail I'd just buy from an FFL. Not because I wish to circumvent any laws, but because the government is so much into our private business that I simply don't feel inclined to give up any more privacy than I am required by law to give up.

^^AND THIS^^

July 2, 2013, 03:35 PM	#1
cjmmc Member Join Date: June 8, 2013 Posts: 32	bill of sale form does anyone have a good bill of sale form they use for doing ftf gun trades or sale? can someone please link me one?

July 2, 2013, 03:43 PM	#2
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Office supply stores. ... If you want hard paper, I bought some from Office Max but I suppose any office supply store will have them. Should be fairly easy to find. As far as the internet, I'm sure you can come up with one, if you Bing or Google it. ... http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...ts&FORM=RESTAB Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing. Last edited by Pahoo; July 2, 2013 at 03:52 PM.

July 3, 2013, 09:26 AM	#8
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	I made up a transfer form that i keep on my web site. Feel free and if their is something i should change let me know. Firearms Transfer Form __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

July 5, 2013, 05:56 AM	#16
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	As I wrote, for those who live near state borders I have no problem with asking to see a driver's license to prove same-state residency. Beyond that, you need to do nothing, and even that is (as I wrote) more than the law actually requires. I don't live near a state border. However, I live in an area where regional accents can be rather strong, and if I were confronted with a buyer whose accent clearly indicated that "Yer not from 'round hyar, are you?" I suppose I would then ask to see a driver's license, too. The law is basically telling you to have your antennae out, and a "furrin' " accent would be one of those factors that could lead a seller to reasonably believe the buyer might not be eligible. But the law is really addressing prohibited persons, not interstate sales. So a buyer has a driver's license from your state. How do you know he/she isn't an ex-convict, or that he/she doesn't have a protective order against him/her? If your state doesn't require a carry permit or FOID to even buy a handgun, there's no document available that says "I am not a convict," and there's no document available that says "This person is not subject to a restraining order." I was not advocating "circumventing" anything, and I rather resent colbad's suggestion that I was advocating such. This is an open discussion, and I posted to clarify what the law actually REQUIRES. How far you wish to go beyond what the law requires is a matter of personal preference. Since the original question asked about bills of sale, it should be recognized that, while a BOS might make you feel more comfortable, it is not required by law and it WILL reduce the pool of potential buyers if you insist on one because I know I am not the only member of this forum whose position is that if I wanted a paper trail I'd just buy from an FFL. Not because I wish to circumvent any laws, but because the government is so much into our private business that I simply don't feel inclined to give up any more privacy than I am required by law to give up. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; July 5, 2013 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Typo

July 2, 2013, 05:17 PM	#3
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	I think Brownell's has these now, as I do know they still have the tags, but I think they have a line of everything including letterheads and envelopes.

July 2, 2013, 07:37 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	Everything is on the Internet. http://www.freebillofsaleform.org/gun.html http://www.billofsale-form.com/firea...-of-sale-form/

July 2, 2013, 09:39 PM	#5
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	Use a 4473. Although it is a dealer form, you show due diligence using it to ensuring all is legit. That is assuming you want to be legit. I also shoot a photo with my iphone of the DL. If someone does not want to provide I don't sell. Don't need the money that bad to get jammed up later.

July 2, 2013, 10:26 PM	#6
cjmmc Member Join Date: June 8, 2013 Posts: 32	thanks

July 3, 2013, 09:38 AM	#9
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	Personally, I don't like handing out my DL to a stranger, and I'm not alone. Do what you want, it's your sale, but if you're buying or selling an item and require a BOS or a DL, let the other party know before you meet. I had a buyer a couple of months ago who wheedled me down $100, had me drive 20 minutes to meet him, then asked to "see" a copy of my DL. I let him do it, and he snapped a picture of it with his phone without asking me. I consider that to be rude.

July 3, 2013, 07:20 PM	#11
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	I don't do BOS for private FTF sales - either selling or buying

July 4, 2013, 11:29 PM	#15
colbad Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2012 Posts: 506	You and me think alike Jimmy R. It is those that try to circumvent the intended purpose of the law with "blinders" and argue the fine points of what they are "legally" required to do that cause issues for the rest of us gun owners. Here near the AZ border I could sell guns all day long to illegal Mexicans by arguing "how am I to know they are illegal" and play dumb. If on those very rare occasions I actually sell something out of my personal collection, its my sale, my rules, take it or leave it. The few things I have actually sold were nothing special that could not be obtained from a FFL. Not wanting to provide me with information that makes me feel comfortable raises a red flag that the person is probably not able to get past the NICS check. If one just does what is the right thing the rest takes care of itself.

July 5, 2013, 06:31 AM	#17
wayneinFL Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2004 Posts: 1,944	Morally, I see residence as far less important an issue than whether the buyer is a felon. If you're that worried about geography, you should be taking the buyer to a dealer and getting a background check, because you should be a whole lot more worried about that.