Velocity loss with 3f Goex

Poodleshooter · July 8, 2002, 04:25 PM

Very odd. The other day while shooting in high humidity, 95+ degrees, I chronographed several loads from my T/C. Loads used CCI caps and .50 320gr Lee cast lead maxiballs. 90grs of PyrodexRS ran around 15-1600fps. I then chronoed some 80gr 3F loads. They only ran about 950-1000fps!
Can anyone come up with an explanation for this?
Powder deterioration? It has been stored in the same place as the Pyrodex. The chrono was not at fault, as I tested a Pyrodex load after the 3F. Velocity was consistent with the earlier loads.

RON in PA · July 8, 2002, 10:50 PM

Is your pyrodex load by weight or volume. It should be by volume as it was meant to be a one-to-one replacement for
BP on a volume basis.

Very possible that you have some deteriorated powder.

Poodleshooter · July 9, 2002, 10:22 AM

All of my powder is volume loaded-from the same measure even. The odd part is that all of this powder is stored in the exact same place. Isn't Pyrodex supposed to be more susceptible to poor storage? How can I detect deteriorated black powder? I know the pungent smell of deteriorated smokeless, but I'm not sure with black powder.

**4V50 Gary** · July 9, 2002, 04:26 PM

I'm thinking humidity once it's exposed to the air.

F.G. Black · July 11, 2002, 12:23 AM

I did a pretty thorough review of velocity with the 45 Colt using FFg, FFFg, and Hodgdon's RS, P, Ctg, and Select. Real black powder by Goex always had a slower velocity. The fastest was the Ctg which is an Fg equvalent.

I recently compared FFg, FFFg, Triple Seven, and Clearshot in the 44-40. I did not get to chronograph, but Clearshot gave the most accuracy from my Marlin 20" Cowboy rifle, and Triple Seven had twice the recoil of any of the others....all with the same volume loads.

F.G. Black

Jimmy Mac · July 11, 2002, 11:08 AM

I hate Pryodex but I have to admit that sometimes it does give higher veloicity than blackpowder in some cases but never at the rate that you found.

I would guess that somehow you got a bad lot of blackpowder.

Pryodex or at least the older stuff did not store very well. If it was over two or three years old it was crap. I am told the newer lots of it is better but I will have to take their word for it. I will never buy it again.

Some of the best blackpowder I ever shot had been stored since the 40s.

A guy gave me a glass container full of FFF that he found in a old barn. We found out later that this once belonged to a guy that used to shoot muzzleloaders in the 40s. He died in 1950.

This was as good or better than any new powder you can buy.

July 8, 2002, 04:25 PM	#1
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Velocity loss with 3f Goex Very odd. The other day while shooting in high humidity, 95+ degrees, I chronographed several loads from my T/C. Loads used CCI caps and .50 320gr Lee cast lead maxiballs. 90grs of PyrodexRS ran around 15-1600fps. I then chronoed some 80gr 3F loads. They only ran about 950-1000fps! Can anyone come up with an explanation for this? Powder deterioration? It has been stored in the same place as the Pyrodex. The chrono was not at fault, as I tested a Pyrodex load after the 3F. Velocity was consistent with the earlier loads.

July 8, 2002, 10:50 PM	#2
RON in PA Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1998 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 673	Is your pyrodex load by weight or volume. It should be by volume as it was meant to be a one-to-one replacement for BP on a volume basis. Very possible that you have some deteriorated powder. __________________ I shoot, therefore I am.

July 9, 2002, 04:26 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	I'm thinking humidity once it's exposed to the air. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 11, 2002, 12:23 AM	#5
F.G. Black Junior Member Join Date: July 10, 2002 Posts: 4	I did a pretty thorough review of velocity with the 45 Colt using FFg, FFFg, and Hodgdon's RS, P, Ctg, and Select. Real black powder by Goex always had a slower velocity. The fastest was the Ctg which is an Fg equvalent. I recently compared FFg, FFFg, Triple Seven, and Clearshot in the 44-40. I did not get to chronograph, but Clearshot gave the most accuracy from my Marlin 20" Cowboy rifle, and Triple Seven had twice the recoil of any of the others....all with the same volume loads. F.G. Black __________________ USMC '79-'91 FBINA #163

July 9, 2002, 10:22 AM	#3
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	All of my powder is volume loaded-from the same measure even. The odd part is that all of this powder is stored in the exact same place. Isn't Pyrodex supposed to be more susceptible to poor storage? How can I detect deteriorated black powder? I know the pungent smell of deteriorated smokeless, but I'm not sure with black powder.

July 11, 2002, 11:08 AM	#6
Jimmy Mac Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Posts: 688	I hate Pryodex but I have to admit that sometimes it does give higher veloicity than blackpowder in some cases but never at the rate that you found. I would guess that somehow you got a bad lot of blackpowder. Pryodex or at least the older stuff did not store very well. If it was over two or three years old it was crap. I am told the newer lots of it is better but I will have to take their word for it. I will never buy it again. Some of the best blackpowder I ever shot had been stored since the 40s. A guy gave me a glass container full of FFF that he found in a old barn. We found out later that this once belonged to a guy that used to shoot muzzleloaders in the 40s. He died in 1950. This was as good or better than any new powder you can buy.