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February 20, 2019, 07:58 AM | #26 |
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Maybe Pierce was looking for an entry in "The Darwin Awards" or "The LawDog Files"?
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February 20, 2019, 08:09 AM | #27 |
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The concealed carrier is eaten up with cheap political trash. A couple wearing those hats; going peacefully about their business, were too much for the guy. He should never be allowed to own a gun.
Folks at the extreme ends of the political spectrum sometimes believe they have a right to confront folks whose politics are opposite theirs. |
February 20, 2019, 08:55 AM | #28 |
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It’s what you get when idiots are told day after day on “news” channels that freedom of speech is actually hate speech. Then you get someone that has no business with a firearm do something that could have gotten him killed.
He should be lucky to be alive and unarmed from now on. Likely not the case though and some day we will read another story about him where “someone” (after all we can’t have anyone in particular responsible) ignored “the warning signs”. Anyone old enough to have watched looney tunes knows what bugs was referring to, the others watch the above “news” channels and “form their own narrative”, not based in reality. |
February 20, 2019, 09:25 AM | #29 | ||
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Quote:
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Mental health review as a requirement to own a handgun? I agree with you both, BTW...too many stupid, untrained, people with guns.
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February 20, 2019, 10:00 AM | #30 |
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That's right! We need more laws!!!!
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February 20, 2019, 10:13 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
I have been a broncos fan for a number of years. I had just watched a particularly disappointing game. My wife insists that I wear a team shirt for the games we watch. (yes, it's mostly her that is the football fan.) I'm antisocial and at times I have real problems with my temper. It had been an amazingly hard month. As soon as this game was over, I had to go out for groceries, still in my broncos shirt. well, I didn't realize that denver and KC were rivals, and i was in missouri. some young guy got in my face and yelled at me about my shirt. he nearly wet himself when i snarled at him. it's REALLY dangerous to do things like this. it's possible that most impulse murders world wide occur over things like politics, art, religion, or morality. If that guy hadn't melted down and hurried away, if he had stood his ground and pushed me even farther, I feel certain that it would have ended with me breaking him apart. My anti-seizure medication was doing awful things to me. This guy just randomly picked someone to harass, and my god, he picked someone who at the time was just plain dangerous. This dipstick picked on someone who WAS dangerous, not just angry. The other guy followed him to his car after he melted and turned away from the confrontation. This situation strikes me as being nearly identical to the one I had over a freakin football jersey, but the people and the culture were different. We are far more confrontational now. ordinary People used to understand fear and danger involving confronting strangers.
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February 20, 2019, 10:23 AM | #32 |
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as much as we dislike the reality of things, sometimes one of 'us' goes bonkers. I feel it's a rare thing, but it does happen.
This also points up the wisdom of not escalating bad situations. Being flipped off is just not worth getting shot, and everybody now seems to be willing to play the "my life was threatened' card.
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February 20, 2019, 10:25 AM | #33 | |
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FireForged
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Nemo Me Impune Lacesset "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.".........Ronald Reagan |
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February 20, 2019, 11:59 AM | #34 | |
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dismiss it if you like, use the term if you like, call it an exercise in overthinking (if you like). Its an issue that has been discussed for years with varying degrees of consensus and one which could potentially impact a person negatively in certain environments. That's my generally thought on the matter and my offering was intended to be good natured rolling of the eyes. Having people put words and inflections under a microscope is the world we live in and I simply prefer not to give someone an easy avenue to twist my words into something unintentionally insulting. I thought others here might feel the same and consider my caution to have some minor value. I see that I have likely misjudged but I stand by what I said. Good luck
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Life is a web woven by necessity and chance... Last edited by FireForged; February 20, 2019 at 02:27 PM. |
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February 20, 2019, 02:00 PM | #35 |
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If people knew the reported genesis of the song "turkey in the straw", the ice cream truck song, we'd be able to see something more impressive than a sixteen car pileup on an icy highway. Look it up, anyone can find it. But just like the first example it is a relatively unknown fact, so there's no real trigger.
I can picture in my mind ice cream trucks being shot at or burned if people only knew.
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February 20, 2019, 02:03 PM | #36 |
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I may have followed the aggressor out to identify his car, license plate ect. I don't think
I would have confronted him if he was retreating. Like most of us here I would have been armed. I don't think it is prudent to draw on a drawn gun but if my life and my wife's life had just been threaten I just might make a move. I just hope I never have to find out. As for the use of the word "maroon" why do we allow political correctness limit free speech. You should be allowed to say what you want but realize "while speech may be free, it still has social and legal consequences" . Last edited by kenny53; February 20, 2019 at 02:16 PM. |
February 20, 2019, 02:26 PM | #37 |
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There was an event in metairie LA that erupted and resulted in a death when a 'hero' followed a bad guy out of a store and made a public spectacle of taking down the license number.
Done discreetly that's a good enough idea, but just like anything else that we can do in life, it can trigger unwanted repercussions. The safest thing to do when observing a situation like this is to do nothing and wait for the situation to resolve itself. many people can do so. Some people just can't help themselves, they have to get involved. The smartest and safest thing that the MAGA hat wearer could have done was take the thing off and let it go. Toss the hat on the floor and walk away. Let the dozens of cameras scattered throughout the store and parking lot and the store security personnel do the job that they are intended to do. Is anyone surprised that this happened? Politics has become polarizing and the MAGA hat has become a monster. Some people wear them just to make the other guys angry.
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February 20, 2019, 04:24 PM | #38 |
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Two idiots posturing like children in a playground
If the "victim" wanted the fight he claims to have been looking for he had every justification to throw the first punch and well beyond. Even if he happened to have pushed the gun holder the gun holder had escalated the threat and he would have been justified in responding. The gun holder whipped out his gun, expecting it to instantly compensate for something?, and was utterly embarrassed and unprepared for when the "victim" didn't cower in fear and repent. All that's missing is a couple friends and the idiots telling them "hold me back, hold me back"
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February 20, 2019, 05:09 PM | #39 |
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I'm not sure why you say that the unarmed man was justified in throwing the first punch since the guy had already backed down. when he realized that the guy with the gun wasn't going to shoot, he had no further fear of being harmed and thus had no justification to 'defend himself' with violence.
Maybe I misread something, but according to many laws I have studied, lethal force laws ignore who started the conflict. If the unarmed guy had started pounding on the guy with the gun, at that time, he had become the aggressor and was putting the other guy's life and safety in jeopardy. The guy with the gun, who now has a guy beating him up, may be so afraid of dying or having his brains knocked loose that he may have full justification for shooting the unarmed attacker. He will be legally justified in shooting the guy who followed him out to his car with the sole intention of beating the hell out of him. (he admitted that, right?)
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February 20, 2019, 05:30 PM | #40 | |||
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Tennessee is complicated.
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2 and A of the next paragraph clearly state that the phillips, who started the conflict but left the scene and no longer presented a threat, could, in fact, attack and kill the pierce if he should press an attack against him in revenge. That depends on the next paragraph. Quote:
There are the laws, with a whole lot of editing of inapplicable wordage edited out. This set of statutes essentially states that phillips had committed a crime of what should be aggravated assault, but the assault had ended and the crime was in the past. It states that if pierce had then threatened or attacked phillips, that is a new violation of law on his part and that phillips would be justified in either threatening or using deadly force, contingent on the threat being genuine, or at least so genuine in his mind that he believed that he had no choice. An attorney and jury will have to decide whether he made that conclusion reasonably, or if he was just using it as an excuse. There must be genuine danger, or reasonable and provably reasonable danger. These terms are pretty consistent in most of the stand your ground, castle, or other defense laws that I have read. My reporting of them here isn't to be taken as gospel as they are incomplete and edited from the original language and full context. Everyone here needs to read, learn, memorize, understandthe laws of their own state and municipalities and any other place that they may travel to. Don't depend on the cut and paste of an internet user. If you do take your information from anything other than official sources of the jurisdiction that you are currently in and commit a crime, you deserve whatever you get.
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None. Last edited by briandg; February 20, 2019 at 05:48 PM. |
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February 20, 2019, 05:42 PM | #41 |
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He probably would not have gotten away with pounding his head into the pavement (see the Zimmerman verdict) but I bet he would have gotten away with swinging, knocking down, and disarming him
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A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation) |
February 20, 2019, 05:55 PM | #42 | |
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That's just the way the laws are written. It protects all of the hotheads who might think of shoving or punching a guy who committed an offense. Watch the westerns and you will often see the bad guy goading the good guy into drawing first. Those dudes would go to jail.
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February 20, 2019, 06:40 PM | #43 |
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I was unclear. I meant while the gunman was making aggressive movement (gun in the face, the draw). Not while he was retreating.
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A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation) |
February 20, 2019, 07:59 PM | #44 |
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I don't think these are problems with a lack of training. These guys were both idiots. One shouldn't need training to not pull a legally carried firearm on a person for their political views or middle finger. One should not need training to understand that following and confronting an unstable person that just had a gun to your head is a very bad idea.
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February 20, 2019, 08:46 PM | #45 | |
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Now if we only enforced the laws we already have.... |
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February 21, 2019, 02:11 AM | #46 | |
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In retrospect it's obvious that phillips didn't want to shoot. It may have been pretty obvious at the time. I'm not sure what I would do if phillips had pointed a gun at me. It is completely obvious that pierce didn't fear him at all. A bit of looking around will show that Pierce isn't a quiet man. As time passes we may find out that he was actually the instigator, that maybe he had provoked philips, and that phillips was the one who got caught. My brothers always kicked me under the dinner table and of course I was the one who got poked with with a fork when I started yelling. It seems pretty clear here at the beginning. Whatever comes out in the trials will be interesting.
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February 21, 2019, 08:57 AM | #47 |
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Not what I said, I guess you missed the '?' at end of each QUESTION. Stupid people with guns doing stupid things...the price we pay for 2nd amendment rights?
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February 21, 2019, 09:00 AM | #48 | |
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Quote:
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A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation) |
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February 21, 2019, 10:07 AM | #49 |
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Correct. It would be hard not to take it seriously with a crazy looking dude like phillips pointing a gun. But it's the subtle points that would make or break it, unless there is some sort of legal protection involved.
maybe irrelevant to the discussion, but a person can look into pierce's personal life and the fact that he pursued phillips in search of a new confrontation and clearly see that he's probably not suited to carry. IMO.
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February 21, 2019, 10:21 AM | #50 |
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There is a thin line between bravery and stupidity but in the case of Pierce we don't have to worry about which side of the line he fell on. Following a known armed man into the parking lot to continue the confrontation speaks of stupidity to a level that seems to rise to dangerous in itself. I'm not a legal scholar but once Philips ended the confrontation and retreated and Pierce decided to pursue and re escalate it the roles of who was the aggressor may have reversed (again?).
As noted earlier though there are clearly parts of this situation that are unknown as we have already heard about areas "off camera" and I expect there is much more to the story then we will ever know. I'm sure Philips has been in the presence of those who espouse political views different than his own in the past and has managed to, seemingly, NOT draw his gun and confront them so it is likely there is more to it with Pierce
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A coward believes he will ever live if he keep him safe from strife: but old age leaves him not long in peace though spears may spare his life. - The Havamal (Bray translation) |
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