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September 17, 2014, 05:01 PM | #1 |
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New Legislation to Eliminate the ATF
Republican congressman Jim Sensenbrenner (R-WI 5th District) has introduced legislation to end the ATF.
In a report here this comes after several failed stings in WI where the ATF convinced mentally disabled people to commit crimes and then jailed them in order to justify their operations. There are reports of this practice from all across the country. Ranging from Oregon to Kansas to Florida. This is a copy of the proposal. |
September 17, 2014, 05:45 PM | #2 |
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Good luck with that. It'll never happen unless both houses of congress and the White House are dominated by the Repub party. Even then it's doubtful.
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September 17, 2014, 07:46 PM | #3 |
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Not in my lifetime!
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September 17, 2014, 10:31 PM | #4 |
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Uh, without the ATF, how will any manufacturers get licenses or pay their SOT, and how will all the still-legally-required taxes for other stuff get paid? If we gut their enforcement operations, scary guys and everyone else really will start us down the dangerous path of flouting these very serious laws; easy recipe for a later crackdown.
The ATF is part and parcel with the NFA/GCA; can't have one without the other. If Jimmy Sensenbrenner is serious about correcting this great crime on our civil rights, he should be proposing changes to the NFA directly. Anything else is cheap talk. Defunding is not enough when the law still requires them. EDIT: Knew it; cheap talk. He wants to roll the ATF into the FBI. Apparently that's what 'abolishment' goes by these days. Same logic that got us the Homeland Security Department; increased centralization of power was somehow supposed to make it more responsible and effective. TCB
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September 18, 2014, 12:11 AM | #5 | |
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Now, as for the NFA, it wouldn't go away. It predates the ATF by 34 years anyhow. However, I suspect that having it administered by the FBI would make it far more efficient. Consider the NICS system. As far as the FBI's involvement in it, it runs really well. With the exception of Black Swan events like Sandy Hook, it's reliable and accessible. On the other hand, the ATF can't even keep a registry of ~130,000 machine guns straight. They've admitted that the error rate in the NFRTR might be well over 50%. Then there's the matter of things like Fast & Furious. The FBI is an older, larger organization with a professional culture. It's the very antithesis of the go-getter cowboy culture of the ATF that has resulted in so many catastrophes. The funny thing? The idea of folding the ATF into the FBI has come up several times over the years (John Conyers proposed a bill after Ruby Ridge and Waco). The reaction from many ATF agents was favorable. They'd get better support and a much better working environment. It also wouldn't hurt to have the same organization handling compliance and enforcement of firearms laws. There will always be regulation on firearms. If it's to be done, I'd rather have the FBI doing it.
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September 18, 2014, 04:59 AM | #6 |
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Lots of activity by law enforcement these days to justify their existence, and also expand their presence. It needs to stop.
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September 18, 2014, 05:00 AM | #7 | |
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Entrapment?
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September 18, 2014, 06:00 AM | #8 | |
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September 18, 2014, 06:25 AM | #9 |
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Sensenbrenner is pandering to his electorate. The BATFE is not going away.
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September 18, 2014, 08:39 AM | #10 |
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It's only considered entrapment if they tell them to commit a crime and that they'll be exempt from prosecution. If however an undercover agent convinces you do something illegal and you do it... well you're guilty. The article never specifies if they identified themselves as law enforcement or whatnot. It is pretty despicable they went after people with disabilities.
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September 18, 2014, 09:01 AM | #11 | |
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September 18, 2014, 11:09 AM | #12 | ||
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September 18, 2014, 11:42 AM | #13 |
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Had the pleasure of working with some FBI guys while on active duty.
To a man, they were competent, friendly, and earnest. Let me repeat that they were competent. Did I mention they were competent? The Bureau has a culture of professional integrity and public service, that in my opinion the boys in the BATFE lack. Granting I was six at the time, I can't understand how post Waco the the BATF wasn't folded into the Bureau. The appellation of F Troop is rightly applied in my opinion, even if it is a bit of a disgrace to the fine flyers in our F Troop (Aviation) All that being said, even if the BATFE(io-eio) was to be disbanded, we'd still have the NFA and, more intolerably, the Hughes Amendment.
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September 18, 2014, 12:56 PM | #14 | |
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September 18, 2014, 01:39 PM | #15 |
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I've also had the opportunity to work with the FBI and agree with other comments about their professionalism. I've never had any contact with BATF.
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September 19, 2014, 02:51 AM | #16 | |
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The jobs done by the ATF could be done by other agencies. There is a lot of strong feeling that other agencies (notably the FBI) could do those same jobs better than the ATF. Which agency does what is, essentially, an executive decision, so long as Congress provides the funding.
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September 19, 2014, 02:54 AM | #17 | |
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September 19, 2014, 10:58 PM | #18 | ||||
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The Court went onto explain the typical drug sting scenario would not involve entrapment: Quote:
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September 19, 2014, 11:06 PM | #19 |
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1) we can only hope.
2) not holding my breath.
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September 20, 2014, 05:05 AM | #20 | |
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September 20, 2014, 04:24 PM | #21 |
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Entrapment
John DeLorean comes to mind.
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September 21, 2014, 09:03 AM | #22 |
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Do we really want the FBI to take over?
The FBI was pretty much J. Edgar Hoover's personal police force that did his bidding. Has that changed much since his death?
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September 21, 2014, 12:11 PM | #23 | |
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September 21, 2014, 06:00 PM | #24 |
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I'd rather take my chances with the FBI in lieu of the cowboys (and cowgirls) of the BATFE and their list of rather egregious encroachments and oversteps.
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September 22, 2014, 02:49 AM | #25 | |
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