Packing weight?

[Kimbercommander]

Is it just me or are there a lot of people that will complain about packing a 6 pound gun over a 5 pound gun? To me this is the last place I would try to shave weight for a hunt. Instead of packing 5 knives just pack one with replacable blades. Instead of a hand axe use a wire saw. Just seems to me that taking all the things that make your weapon more stable i.e. good stock, heavy barrel, bi-pod away is a mistake. Yes I hunt the mountains. My favorite hunting unit in oregon is in the Eagle Cap wilderness. Elevation can vary from 3000-6700 feet. I still carry a 13 pound weapon. I just dont understand all the craze about ultralight weapons.

[8MM Mauser]

I concur! I have a past as a powerlifter, and I still work out, so the load probably doesn't feel like as much to me, but I honestly don't get the trend towards rifles and shotguns being lighter. I prefer a heavier gun which mitigates recoil better myself, and I guess I just like the feeling of a little heft in hand.

That said, my primary hunting rifle is a sporterized old Mauser with a lightweight laminate stock, mostly due to the handling characteristics (it's quite handy as bolt guns go). However, The gun is the last place to cut weight I would say, though I will also concede that this entirely comes down to personal preference. Personally, I'm young and strong for my size; the weight of the gun affects me less than it does my grandfather who is in his mid-70's and has a bum right arm, for example. To me it's more about how a gun handles than weight anyway.

[jimbob86]

I surmise that many of those complaining about a 10 lb. rifle are packing 2X that in extra weight around their middle, and if they spent 1/2 an hour 3X a week going for a walk, (with or without the 10 lb rifle) they'd not only eliminate that 20 lbs, a 10 lb rifle would not seem very heavy...... just my guess.


I'm going to go do some position work now ....

[jmr40]

I can carry a 10 lb+ rifle. I've done it before and could do it again if I felt it helped. I just can't find a single reason why I'd want to.




I could carry around a rifle with a brick taped to the barrel, bet you could do it too, but carrying around a rifle with a brick taped to the barrel makes as much sense as carrying a 10 lb rifle when 5 lb rifles shoot like this.

I surmise that many of those complaining about a 10 lb. rifle are packing 2X that in extra weight around their middle,

I've found the opposite to be true. Most guys carrying 10 lb rifles never get more than 50 yards from the ATV. Virtually all of the guy who use 5 lb rifles are already in near perfect condition and are the ones who walk miles on their hunts.

[Doyle]

To me, it isn't the total amount of weight being carried. It is that extra pound of weight sitting on a sling over my shoulder that makes the difference.

[Art Eatman]

I've done a fair number of walking hunts with a 9-3/4-pound rifle. 12 to 15 miles of that and my right shoulder darned near had a permanent sag.

I've also hunted with a seven-pound carbine. Much easier.

Not exactly "casual walk" country:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...6&d=1021565164

From the rough stuff looking down into the easy stuff:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...4&d=1021342883

I dunno. Just like airplanes and race cars, weight is the enemy.

[ZeroJunk]

I hunt most of the time with an old standard weight pre-64 Model 70 with a #3 taper Schneider barrel. It is heavy. If I had it to do over I would probably do something lighter. But, I don't feel strongly enough about it to spend a couple grand.

[chewie146]

I guess you're in better shape than I am! I hunt mountains in NM, and usually hate working with the M77, and prefer my 700 in .270. The weight of the wood makes a difference at the end of a 5 day hunt. Personally, I shoot as well with a light rifle, and perhaps a bit better. I've never seen a place for a heavy rifle. Bipods are extra weight that I don't need. I have a pack and a myriad of sticks and trees to find a rest on. Then again, a long shot for me is 300 yards. Most of the time it's far closer.

If I had some loudenboomer weatherby super fast 50 magnum moose gooser, I'd probably need a heavier rifle to tame recoil. Being that my heaviest kicking rifle, currently, is the .270, it's fine to stay light.

[Tom Matiska]

I notice you said "packing weight". For most of my hunting here in Penn's woods I want a deer rifle light enough to carry hands on all day long. Brush shots happen quick. I don't like the rifle being on my shoulder when bambi steps out of the brush 40 yards away.

[shortwave]

Guess I'm of the lazy type.

But I can tell ya I'd rather carry my Winchester 12 ga. single shot while turkey hunting any day then one of my Rem. 1100's.

[kilimanjaro]

If that two pounds is that crucial, only shoot skinny animals, cause you're going to have to carry them, too.

[BigD_in_FL]

13 pound rifle? Seriously? Why? My 6# Model 7 will take anything I need it to where I am walking, packing, and carrying back out without transportation. That 3# means that much more food/water/survival gear for the same exertion/effort

[jimbob86]

Bipods are extra weight that I don't need.

It's not the weight I object to so much as the fact that it is out there on the end of the stock, messing up the handling quality of the gun, and seems to hang up on everything possible ......

[chewie146]

If that two pounds is that crucial, only shoot skinny animals, cause you're going to have to carry them, too.

Unless you're packing the animal around for the remainder of the hunt for fun, it's a different issue. We're talking about packing weight while looking for them, not getting them out of the woods. That usually involves a pack frame, and if you're lucky, help from a good friend or close family member.

Then again, you're looking to save weight on the pack-out. I don't take hooves on an elk or deer. Cut off anything that's not edible or necessary proof of sex. I usually gut them before getting them out of the woods as well. That's for cooling, but I don't bring the gut pile out with me later, either. If it's not a trophy, or it's a loooong way from the truck, the rack comes off the head and a skull-cap mount is done. If it's a cow hunt, there are lighter ways to retain proof of sex.

It's not the weight I object to so much as the fact that it is out there on the end of the stock, messing up the handling quality of the gun, and seems to hang up on everything possible ......

Drag a long recurve through the woods sometime! I'm not disagreeing with you, but I've never had anything on a rifle be as frustrating as a long, snag-happy bow. Even the shorties love to find sticks and weeds every time you turn around. I've never hiked with a rifle that has a bipod because I have no use for the weight. I imagine if it's anything like you describe, the bipod would be in a bush by the end of a hunt.

[FrankenMauser]

My favorite hunting unit in oregon is in the Eagle Cap wilderness. Elevation can vary from 3000-6700 feet. I still carry a 13 pound weapon. I just dont understand all the craze about ultralight weapons.

Where I grew up, and live, you can still be in the suburbs at 6,700 feet.

My lowest elevation hunts (antelope) have a base of 6,800 feet, even, going up to 6,920. For those hunts, I don't mind carrying a heavy rifle (10-13 lbs). It's pretty flat, and there's still plenty of oxygen.

But, the rest of my hunts generally have a base camp at 8,000 to 8,500 feet; and from there, all of the hunting is up and in rough terrain (exceeding 11,000 feet in a few places). Covering just 8-10 miles a day, at 9,000-10,500 feet, takes a lot more out of you, than most people expect.

At 8,000 feet, you have 17% less oxygen* in the atmosphere that at 3,000 feet. (26% less oxygen than at sea level.)
At 10,000 feet, you have 23% less oxygen than at 3,000 feet. (32% less oxygen than at sea level.)

The physical exertion required to navigate the terrain, coupled with the significantly lower oxygen levels, makes extra pounds feel like tons.
Even if you aren't winded, and struggling to breath, the lower oxygen levels still have quite an impact on your body.

Even standing still, your lungs have to work harder. Your heart has to work harder, because your O2 levels are down, but your body still needs just as much. But, no matter how hard they try, there will never be as much oxygen available, as at lower elevations. You are, in effect, in a constantly weakened state.
That 13 lb rifle that wasn't a problem at 6,000 feet now feels like it weighs 26 lbs at 9,500 feet, and becomes a problem.


For the record... I'm healthy, under 160 lbs, and have been known to cover 20 miles in a day, while hunting. No ATVs. No trucks. ...Just one foot in front of the other.


*(The atmosphere contains 21% oxygen at all altitudes, but the lower atmospheric pressure at higher altitudes limits your ability to use that oxygen. So, an "effective oxygen level" is used to show the effect on the body. You can see a climbers' reference, here: Altitude Chart)

[Brian Pfleuger]

We all want to talk about this like everyone else lives where we live, hunts where we hunt under the same conditions and under the same rules/laws.

What difference does it make if one rifle weighs 5 pounds and another 8.5, if you're only allowed to hunt with shotguns?

What difference does it make if it would be hard to carry a 9 pound gun for 12 miles per day over rugged mountain country at 11,000 feet, if your "walk" for your hunt is 175 yards from the cabin door to a tree stand, up a slight grade at 1,200 feet?

What difference does it make if there's a 5.5 pound rifle I'd rather use, if it costs $1,200 and my budget is $450 or $0?

[old roper]

According to some of Kimbercommander post he pack in to wilderness and camps there and pack out deer/elk without any help.

My rifle elk season starts this coming Sat and most of it's walk-in or horseback and I prefer to walk-in each day got good outfitters tent low be in the teens. Might have couple feet of snow above timberline.

I don't consider rifle weight all that important mine weight 9/10lb depending on which one I use and I'm 71. I'd like to hear what type of pack/weight etc that Kimbercommander uses.

I don't have breathing problems as I live NE of Colorado Springs in the Northern part of Black Forest and my garage door is at 7670ft so getting above 10K is piece of cake even with 10lb rifle and 15lb pack.

I just spend Aug 29 thru Sept 29 archery hunting above 9000ft and I hunted every day had my outfitter rig set up close to access into the back country. I was looking for a good wall-hanger mulie in the 30" spread range something that may go record book.

Myself I figure anyone who can get out and hunt and enjoy it that's the plus side of it and if you have to worry about the other stuff then why hunt.

[TimSr]

One of the advantages of being primarily a pistolero hunter.

[shortwave]

Myself I figure anyone who can get out and hunt and enjoy it that's the plus side of it and if you have to worry about the other stuff then why hunt.

Well said old roper .

I hunt where I want, how I want and with what I want(all being legal of course) and could care less if my hunting partner has to wheel barrel his choice of killing apparatus into the woods or tie weight to it to keep it from blowing away. Makes me no difference.

I figure if a hunter chooses to hunt with a 15lb. gun, either that's all they have or they have their reason's for doing so. Same as someone such as TimSr that hunts pistol only(by the way TimSr, less weight is another reason I enjoy pistol hunting as well). As long as everyone has a good hunt and is happy at the end of the day...who cares.

And my personal hunting choices have come from many, many hrs. spent afield and for now, till something better comes along, I'm happy with them.

The only bitch I usually have when hunting is not what I'm carrying, or the fact that the big one I saw was just out of range, or that big boy wouldn't turn and present me with a shot or even the fact I came home empty handed, it's those slob hunting trespasser's.

[jersurf101]

It depends where and how your shots will be taken terrain wise. The South east is different than the plains than the Pacific north west. I would uich rather have a light handling gun in the brushy North Carolina swamps than Somebody's LMG posing as a bolt action deer gun.

Conversley I see the need for more range, stability and Optics out west

[tahunua001]

with me I don't moan about the gun because I can't handle hiking around with a 9 pound gun because I have a 30 pound pack and half of it's knives... I carry a good foldup knife, a small flashlight, a combo GPS/2way, a camera(in case I get lucky and my wallet with tags. if I'm in rough terrain or plan on being out all day then I'll take a canteen. as it is this is more weight than I want to pack. not because I can't handle the weight of walking around with it all day long but if I do kill something I am going to be stuck dragging it out or hauling quarters back out. if you have a pair of elk quarters over your shoulder then I bet you would feel a lot better with a 6 pound gun than a 13 pound gun. that's just how I see it.

it's not the weight walking in that I gripe about, it's the weight walking back out.

[doofus47]

I'm a less-is-more guy. I carry an 8 lb rifle during rifle season, and I would consider going lighter if I needed to buy a new rifle, but I don't need one.

I've owned a 10lb Hakim and a 7 lb Arisaka carbine and a lot of rifles with in-between weights and calibers. None of them seemed to recoil more than the others, but I definitely felt the extra weight when carrying them. My personal opinion is that during hunting season holding a rifle correctly when firing in addition to all the extra clothes that I wear combines to make enough recoil reduction.
ymmv

[Kimbercommander]

Old Roper, This is a list of some of the thing I use for my hunting.

1) Kimber M8400 police tactical with a custom stock and a 5.5-22x56 NXS Nightforce scope.

2)Eberlestock J107M Dragonfly pack.

3)I carry a old timer pocket knife and a Havalon Piranta with 20+ replaceable blades.

4) I carry freeze dried foods and about 10 pounds of homemade jerky. Deer, Elk and maybe some smoked salmon. I dont pack in water because there is a abundance where I hunt. Drink right out of the creeks. Also i take instant folgers coffee.

5)I use a ALPS Mountaineering Renegade Freighter packframe. I can load about 200 lbs on it at a time and then i use ample cordage to keep it all in place.

I leave the bone in for both the hams and the shoulders taking the lower leg off at the highest knuckle then bone out the rest. I strip the ribs out and the back straps out. I try to leave as much bone on the mountain as possible. And I always try to hunt down if at all possible after i have made my inital climb. I wear wool and flannel. Just taking a single change of clothes with a few pairs of socks and shorts. I dont take a tent as a tarp is good enough for me. A decent sleeping bag is a must but you dont want a heavy one. As for animal retrieval I will make multiple trips as needed. I rarely walk in more then about 15 miles or so. That way i can get away from the other hunters. I wont say my style is for everyone but it the style I like. I know the areas I go very well and take a topo map with me when i go just because. My load out for leaving is right around 55 pounds or so maybe 60 not to sure never felt the need to put it on a scale. Minus the weapon of course.

Edit: I did not start this to point fingers or make anyone feel bad. I get asked all the time at the range if I hunt with the Kimber and then they all get on my back about how I can get a weapon that shoots just as well for half the weight is all. I pack it because I like it plain and simple.

[tahunua001]

if I had to hunt in the conditions you specified I'd need a pack animal of some sort. I generally hunt in rough terrain but rarely stray more than a couple miles from roads. I have never been chastized by strangers about my hunting setup but I must say that I rarely pay much attention to what others think of my setup. this year I killed my blackbear with a arisaka type 44(weight 7.3LBs) and my deer with a 9mm carbine.

[buck460XVR]

I've found the opposite to be true. Most guys carrying 10 lb rifles never get more than 50 yards from the ATV. Virtually all of the guy who use 5 lb rifles are already in near perfect condition and are the ones who walk miles on their hunt

I've found very few if any hunters are in near perfect condition.

IME, those that complain about their rifle's weight at the end of the day are also those that complain about the weather, lack of game and how other folks hunt and what they use. Then they go home to the computer and complain online, while braggin' about their own style and how superior it is. Who cares what folks use and what kind of physical shape they're in? Not me. As long as they hunt ethically, and within the confines of the law, and don't bother or endanger me, I'm good with 'em.