Ultimate in versatility?

jimbob86 · September 16, 2011, 10:11 PM

In another thread, a poster suggested you can't do everything with one rifle, cottontails to Moose ...... I suggested that if one knew how to handload and cast bullets for reduced loads, it was entirely possible to hunt cottontails and moose with the same rig ...... this begs the question: If you had to do EVERYTHING with one rifle, benchrest, high-power target shooting, moose, bear, cottontail, plinking ....... everything...... and you were limited to one rifle of one caliber (No drillings or combo-guns) ......What would you use, for greatest utility and versatility?

Ideal Tool · September 16, 2011, 10:29 PM

A Ruger No. 1 in .38-55 should do it. There are original Ideal/Lyman bullet moulds for a 145 bullet, and with a 1-12" twist, you can go right up to 360gr. gas-check or switch over to jacketed for the big stuff. You could choose a .375H&H also, but it might prove a bit finicky with the pop-gun loads in that big oversized case. I would put a heavy custom brl. on it 26" long, set up 1/4 rib. with detatchable scope mounts (Talley) and set up with the NECG ramp front for interchangeable bead/blades & NECG appature sight which fits 1/4 rib.

jimbob86 · September 16, 2011, 10:54 PM

I am trying to imagine somone doing 3-Gun with a Ruger #1 in .38/55 .......

Any more shots at it?

FrankenMauser · September 16, 2011, 11:01 PM

Quote:

I am trying to imagine somone doing 3-Gun with a Ruger #1 in .38/55 .......

You didn't say anything about shot shells in your first post, jimbob.

Are you adding that as a requirement?

Aside from 3-gun, I do all of the above with my .270 Winchester. Most of the time, I don't bother with light loads, either. I just find an accurate load, and stick with it (even if that happens to be 3,600 fps for a 100 gr HP

).

jimbob86 · September 16, 2011, 11:07 PM

OK, FM, you got me on that...... technically, though, you would use the No. 1 for the rifle stage only, and the handgun for the handgun and a shotgun for th eshotgun portion..... the deal is "one rifle for all rifle applications, plinking to cottontails to competion to moose" .....

Any more takers? I'd have thought you, FM, would have jumped right on this? What say you?

jimbob86 · September 16, 2011, 11:10 PM

Quote:

3,600 fps for a 100 gr HP

would make a hell of a mess of a good rabbit dinner...... and would be hard on the shoulder in an extended match, no? I've shot over 100 .270WIN 100 and 110 gr bullets in a day (@ only 3,000 f/sec) on consecutive days...... after the second day, my shoulder was complaining.......

Shootest · September 16, 2011, 11:12 PM

Something in 30-06, probably a Remington 700 or similar (accurate enough for the USMC). I have loaded 100g semi jacketed round nose that would be good for small game, and 165g for accuracy, and 220g that would do for most anything moose size.

Jim243 · September 16, 2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

What would you use, for greatest utility and versatility?

Savage model 110 in 270 Winchester. My pesonal choice is a model 10 in 243 Winchester, but not sure I would use it on bear.

Jim

FrankenMauser · September 17, 2011, 12:10 AM

Quote:

would make a hell of a mess of a good rabbit dinner......

I use bulk 130 gr Core-Lokts for plinking and practice loads. They do great on rabbits -- just punch right through, if you only hit soft tissue, or ribs.

Quote:

I'd have thought you, FM, would have jumped right on this? What say you?

It's a tough call. The easy answer is ".30-06". ...But I hate jumping on the .30-06 bandwagon (no offense intended, Shootest). And, I consider .30-06 to be a pretty inefficient cartridge (not that .270 Win is any better

).

What immediately came to mind, for me, was .35 Whelen. Bullet selection isn't great, but it's good enough for anything but the toughest animals (elephant, etc). You've got run-of-the-mill stuff like Rem Core-Lokts, a variety of bullets in between, and premium stuff like Weldcores, solids, A-Frames, and more.

Plus, it works in a standard length action. You don't have to haul an extra pound (or more) worth of rifle around, that would accompany a "magnum" cartridge.

In addition, the .35 caliber bore allows the use of dozens of pistol bullets for plinking and small game, and cast bullets are not difficult to find.

The .35 Whelen, in my opinion, is one of the most versatile modern rifle cartridges you can find.

Now... If you think the .35 Whelen will beat you up too badly during a long match, my other suggestions would be:
Something with a .311-.313" bore (7.62x54R, .303 British, .303 Savage), so good big game bullets and match bullets are available; while also being able to use .32 caliber handgun bullets.
Or, something in a quarter bore (.257 Roberts, .25-06). With the quarter bore, there aren't as many premium big game bullets that I would trust for something like moose, but you do have a few handgun bullets available for plinking and small game. And, using .257 Roberts would make for comfortable shooting in a match.

It really depends on what people view as "ideal" for small game and plinking.

jimbob86 · September 17, 2011, 12:25 AM

To be honest, the first cartidge that came to my mind was .35 Remington....... but I'm not sure that would have enough top end power ...... .35 Whelen is an excellent choice, FM......

Also- for plinking and close range small game ........ how about individual buckshot as bullets? Or would a 1 in 10 twist be much to fast? Anybody ever try that?

farmerboy · September 17, 2011, 12:26 AM

Id have to say a 22-250. Great for small game and you shoot a bear, moose or whatever right in the ear and watch just how fast they fall.

jimbob86 · September 17, 2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

you shoot a bear...... right in the ear and watch just how fast they fall.

If you muck it up, you better be in a plane. And the plane better be airborne already.

I'm wondering how well a 60 grain bullet would penetrate a Grizzly skull, especially if it you did not hit it square.

DarthNul · September 17, 2011, 02:50 AM

Too many ways to look at this.

One answer: The best gun is the one you have available or in your hands at the moment of opportunity. Or maybe the one that you are most familiar with.

Otherwise, the most versatile long gun probably wouldn't even be a rifle but a shotgun.

In a handgun reliability would trump all else. It doesn't matter how accurate it is or how much stopping power it has if it doesn't go bang first time every time.

But I'm probably being too philosophical. If we we're asked to relinquish all but one of our guns I suspect the most popular answer would be "no thanks".

Dr. Strangelove · September 17, 2011, 02:59 AM

Sticking with rifles, .270win or 7x57mauser. Otherwise, 12ga shotgun.

Jimro · September 17, 2011, 03:16 AM

If it really had to be a "do it all" solution I believe that the 9mm medium bore rifles fit the bill. 358 Win, 9x57, or 35 Whelen.

Use cheap 124 gr 9mm handgun bullets for plinking and rabbit. Use 250 gr heavies for big bear.

You could do the same with any of the 30 cal families, using 110 grain 30 carbine bullets for rabbit and 200 grain pills for bear.

If you couldn't reload I don't believe any cartridge could do it.

Jimro

jmorris · September 17, 2011, 12:37 PM

If you could do "it all" with one there would be a lot less choices.

Although quite rare one of the 3 barrel, rilfe round, shot shell side by side with a rimfire under the two in the middle would do it for most hunting needs. Cheaper and more common would be a Savage 24 .22/20ga with the right shells and close range it would do quite a bit as well.

If your going to be competitive in 3 gun you will be shooting an AR. It would also be a poor choice for some of your other uses.

rdmallory · September 17, 2011, 08:07 PM

45-70

Light bunny fart loads for cotton tails.

Ramp it up for the bug guys and hang on.

Doug

Crankylove · September 17, 2011, 10:53 PM

I would also go with something in the .35 flavor..............but I would take my .358 Winchester instead of FM's 35 Whelen.

Couple hundred feet less velocity, and a little less range..........but comes in a short-action, lighter weight gun, with less recoil but still plenty of oomph for big game in North America....and most other places.

Rifle bullets from 180/185's up to 250 grain are pretty common.

.357/.358 pistol bullets from 110 to 180 grain, in jacketed, plated and cast..........and the 9mm (.356) bullets from say 100 grain to 147's, are everywhere and dirt cheap (relatively speaking).

hatecrew2006 · September 17, 2011, 11:12 PM

7.62X54R

Almost the same Velo. as 30-06 almost the same range of bullet weights as a 30-06.

Was the longest running accurate round until 30-06, oh and the guns are cheap.

either that or a 6mm-284, accurate and versatile

dahermit · September 17, 2011, 11:29 PM

The late Richard (Rich) Pedersen of the former Ludington, MI Pedersen's Gun Shop (and father of well-known gun engraver, Rex Pedersen), only used a .243 Winchester for all his rifle shooting and hunting including Canadian moose. He stated that he had no problems killing anything with it. Rich was know for his lightweight a very beautiful custom rifles that he produced in his shop. He was one of those who considered the .243 the perfect all-around round for hunting.

SHNOMIDO · September 18, 2011, 12:14 AM

Im gonna take a zen attempt at the answer here...

12GA

i know its not the answer youre looking for but its what popped into my head.

Theres a wide range on the 30-06. they go light-heavy, tiny-huge, slow-fast. Lots of loading options there.

UtopiaTexasG19 · September 18, 2011, 08:15 AM

Since the ammunition companies have developed the commercial slug for smooth barrel shot guns I consider my 12 gauge the all round gun for my use. Light loads for squirrel, birds, racoon and the one ounce slug for heavier deer use. Also a great gun for home defense. I have been practicing with the Federal TruBall slugs for over a year now and can hit a 8" pie plate 99% of the time at 75 yards with my 870. I prefer my 336 in 30-30 for local deer hunting at relatively close range but could adapt to the 12 gauge quite comfortably.

bluetopper · September 18, 2011, 08:31 AM

You all might think I'm crazy, but my Handi-Rifle in 500 S&W Mag is so very versatile with a wide array of hard cast gas check bullets. And the fun meter will be pegged out.

Brian Pfleuger · September 18, 2011, 12:25 PM

7mm-08

I can load 110gr HP bullets up to 3,300+ fps with IMR3031, or down to to 1,500 or less with Trail Boss. Barnes TTSX 110gr TTSX will kill anything up to and including Elk, probably anything in North America. Bullets are available up to 140gr for standard twist barrels. 140gr at 2,950fps is sufficient for anything in NA, for sure.

Light recoil, flat trajectory, perfect round for North American hunting.

jimbob86 · September 18, 2011, 12:35 PM

Peetza, that completely ignores the other end of the spectrum: you gonna kill cottontails and squirrels with a 1,500 f/sec 110 gr HP? And have anything left to salvage for the pot?

September 16, 2011, 11:12 PM	#7
Shootest Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2011 Location: Just outside Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 722	Something in 30-06, probably a Remington 700 or similar (accurate enough for the USMC). I have loaded 100g semi jacketed round nose that would be good for small game, and 165g for accuracy, and 220g that would do for most anything moose size. __________________ The private ownership of firearms is an American Heritage. Anyone who disputes that is Anti-American and unpatriotic. NRA Life Member

September 17, 2011, 02:50 AM	#13
DarthNul Senior Member Join Date: December 21, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 288	Too many ways to look at this. One answer: The best gun is the one you have available or in your hands at the moment of opportunity. Or maybe the one that you are most familiar with. Otherwise, the most versatile long gun probably wouldn't even be a rifle but a shotgun. In a handgun reliability would trump all else. It doesn't matter how accurate it is or how much stopping power it has if it doesn't go bang first time every time. But I'm probably being too philosophical. If we we're asked to relinquish all but one of our guns I suspect the most popular answer would be "no thanks". __________________ The most feared gun control law proposal: Require buyers to register all gun purchases with their wives

September 17, 2011, 02:59 AM	#14
Dr. Strangelove Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2008 Location: Athens, GA Posts: 1,436	Sticking with rifles, .270win or 7x57mauser. Otherwise, 12ga shotgun. __________________ Just remember, when you pull the trigger, the bullets come out going very, very fast. So make sure to keep the weapon pointing away from you.

September 17, 2011, 03:16 AM	#15
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If it really had to be a "do it all" solution I believe that the 9mm medium bore rifles fit the bill. 358 Win, 9x57, or 35 Whelen. Use cheap 124 gr 9mm handgun bullets for plinking and rabbit. Use 250 gr heavies for big bear. You could do the same with any of the 30 cal families, using 110 grain 30 carbine bullets for rabbit and 200 grain pills for bear. If you couldn't reload I don't believe any cartridge could do it. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

September 17, 2011, 10:53 PM	#18
Crankylove Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2008 Location: 8B ID Posts: 1,753	I would also go with something in the .35 flavor..............but I would take my .358 Winchester instead of FM's 35 Whelen. Couple hundred feet less velocity, and a little less range..........but comes in a short-action, lighter weight gun, with less recoil but still plenty of oomph for big game in North America....and most other places. Rifle bullets from 180/185's up to 250 grain are pretty common. .357/.358 pistol bullets from 110 to 180 grain, in jacketed, plated and cast..........and the 9mm (.356) bullets from say 100 grain to 147's, are everywhere and dirt cheap (relatively speaking). __________________ The answer to 1984 is 1776

September 16, 2011, 10:11 PM	#1
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Ultimate in versatility? In another thread, a poster suggested you can't do everything with one rifle, cottontails to Moose ...... I suggested that if one knew how to handload and cast bullets for reduced loads, it was entirely possible to hunt cottontails and moose with the same rig ...... this begs the question: If you had to do EVERYTHING with one rifle, benchrest, high-power target shooting, moose, bear, cottontail, plinking ....... everything...... and you were limited to one rifle of one caliber (No drillings or combo-guns) ......What would you use, for greatest utility and versatility?

September 16, 2011, 10:29 PM	#2
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	A Ruger No. 1 in .38-55 should do it. There are original Ideal/Lyman bullet moulds for a 145 bullet, and with a 1-12" twist, you can go right up to 360gr. gas-check or switch over to jacketed for the big stuff. You could choose a .375H&H also, but it might prove a bit finicky with the pop-gun loads in that big oversized case. I would put a heavy custom brl. on it 26" long, set up 1/4 rib. with detatchable scope mounts (Talley) and set up with the NECG ramp front for interchangeable bead/blades & NECG appature sight which fits 1/4 rib.

September 16, 2011, 10:54 PM	#3
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	I am trying to imagine somone doing 3-Gun with a Ruger #1 in .38/55 ....... Any more shots at it?

September 16, 2011, 11:07 PM	#5
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	OK, FM, you got me on that...... technically, though, you would use the No. 1 for the rifle stage only, and the handgun for the handgun and a shotgun for th eshotgun portion..... the deal is "one rifle for all rifle applications, plinking to cottontails to competion to moose" ..... Any more takers? I'd have thought you, FM, would have jumped right on this? What say you?

September 17, 2011, 12:25 AM	#10
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	To be honest, the first cartidge that came to my mind was .35 Remington....... but I'm not sure that would have enough top end power ...... .35 Whelen is an excellent choice, FM...... Also- for plinking and close range small game ........ how about individual buckshot as bullets? Or would a 1 in 10 twist be much to fast? Anybody ever try that?

September 17, 2011, 12:26 AM	#11
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Id have to say a 22-250. Great for small game and you shoot a bear, moose or whatever right in the ear and watch just how fast they fall.

September 17, 2011, 12:37 PM	#16
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	If you could do "it all" with one there would be a lot less choices. Although quite rare one of the 3 barrel, rilfe round, shot shell side by side with a rimfire under the two in the middle would do it for most hunting needs. Cheaper and more common would be a Savage 24 .22/20ga with the right shells and close range it would do quite a bit as well. If your going to be competitive in 3 gun you will be shooting an AR. It would also be a poor choice for some of your other uses.

September 17, 2011, 08:07 PM	#17
rdmallory Senior Member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Location: Deltona FL Posts: 953	45-70 Light bunny fart loads for cotton tails. Ramp it up for the bug guys and hang on. Doug

September 17, 2011, 11:12 PM	#19
hatecrew2006 Member Join Date: July 28, 2011 Posts: 23	7.62X54R Almost the same Velo. as 30-06 almost the same range of bullet weights as a 30-06. Was the longest running accurate round until 30-06, oh and the guns are cheap. either that or a 6mm-284, accurate and versatile

September 17, 2011, 11:29 PM	#20
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	The late Richard (Rich) Pedersen of the former Ludington, MI Pedersen's Gun Shop (and father of well-known gun engraver, Rex Pedersen), only used a .243 Winchester for all his rifle shooting and hunting including Canadian moose. He stated that he had no problems killing anything with it. Rich was know for his lightweight a very beautiful custom rifles that he produced in his shop. He was one of those who considered the .243 the perfect all-around round for hunting.

September 18, 2011, 12:14 AM	#21
SHNOMIDO Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 423	Im gonna take a zen attempt at the answer here... 12GA i know its not the answer youre looking for but its what popped into my head. Theres a wide range on the 30-06. they go light-heavy, tiny-huge, slow-fast. Lots of loading options there.

September 18, 2011, 08:15 AM	#22
UtopiaTexasG19 Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2011 Location: S.E. Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 743	Since the ammunition companies have developed the commercial slug for smooth barrel shot guns I consider my 12 gauge the all round gun for my use. Light loads for squirrel, birds, racoon and the one ounce slug for heavier deer use. Also a great gun for home defense. I have been practicing with the Federal TruBall slugs for over a year now and can hit a 8" pie plate 99% of the time at 75 yards with my 870. I prefer my 336 in 30-30 for local deer hunting at relatively close range but could adapt to the 12 gauge quite comfortably.

September 18, 2011, 08:31 AM	#23
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	You all might think I'm crazy, but my Handi-Rifle in 500 S&W Mag is so very versatile with a wide array of hard cast gas check bullets. And the fun meter will be pegged out.

September 18, 2011, 12:25 PM	#24
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	7mm-08 I can load 110gr HP bullets up to 3,300+ fps with IMR3031, or down to to 1,500 or less with Trail Boss. Barnes TTSX 110gr TTSX will kill anything up to and including Elk, probably anything in North America. Bullets are available up to 140gr for standard twist barrels. 140gr at 2,950fps is sufficient for anything in NA, for sure. Light recoil, flat trajectory, perfect round for North American hunting. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

September 18, 2011, 12:35 PM	#25
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Peetza, that completely ignores the other end of the spectrum: you gonna kill cottontails and squirrels with a 1,500 f/sec 110 gr HP? And have anything left to salvage for the pot?