Strategies for defense in a car

Adizzle19 · May 4, 2017, 01:46 PM

I had an experience the other day that got me thinking about using your pistol to defend yourself inside a vehicle. I had just sat down in my car and closed the door when a man approached my driver side window waving at me. I rolled down to see what he wanted. It was the standard story - looking for a bite to eat, any money would help sort of thing, but he was more persistent than most. I tried to give him a couple quarters in a cup holder but he wanted more. The interaction ended when I told him that was all I could do and he took it.

From this I think I learned two main things: don't even open the window and that while I'm seated in the car I can't really reach my gun and I'm vulnerable. I started reading on using your pistol in the car and most had suggestions that didn't really apply to that situation. Hoping to learn about some of your strategies for using a pistol in and around vehicles. When I've heard from a few I'll share a new strategy I've devised.

g.willikers · May 4, 2017, 03:10 PM

Definitely don't open the window.
You can hear all that's needed with it closed.
And lock the door.
If things get suspicious, drive away.
No further conversation, just drive away.
Unless the situation absolutely calls for it, don't even show your gun.

ShootistPRS · May 4, 2017, 03:38 PM

The first rule of engagement: never lose control of the situation.
Your experience is not unlike the one I had but the conditions were safer. I was helping out at a police training event when I realized that I could not get to my gun while sitting in the car. Shortly after that class I started trying to access my gun from all kinds of positions and found that a waist band holster was extremely limiting. I tried all kinds of different holsters and finally chose a shoulder holster. I can get to my gun in any position and under most every circumstance.

In your case if he had a knife you could be dead. If he had a gun you could be dead. If he had a piece of pipe you could be dead. Leaving the window up, with the car running would have kept you in control. Giving him money rewards him for his audacity and may encourage violence in the future.
As far as beggars are concerned I don't carry cash. If they need groceries, I have offered to buy groceries for them. If they are hungry, I have offered to feed them. Of all the times I have been approached for money only one guy accepted a meal. The rest just wanted cash or were not interested.

Adizzle19 · May 4, 2017, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the replies so far. I agree completely: don't open the window. Driving away immediately would have been ideal. I was parallel parked so tricky but better. I'm thinking of moving my pistol from 3:30 to an aiwb position around 1:00 so I can access it better in the car. I don't love aiwb because of the potential for muzzling myself, but in order to access it it might win out. I occasionally carry my shield there but I might increase the frequency of how I do it. When I get some time I may run a few unloaded draw drills while sitting, which I've never done.

There was a little bit lost in the reselling of the story, I opened the window about 3" only and I told him I didn't carry cash. The major points are the same. I may consider a shoulder holster as well. Any models for a G19 you'd recommend? Horizontal or vertical?

shafter · May 4, 2017, 05:15 PM

Don't open your windows, and make sure you lock your doors. If things start to escalate just drive away. Short of shooting at you, a perp isn't much of a threat to you unless you're boxed in and can't drive away. That being said it's good practice to carry your gun where you can access it no matter how you're sitting.

45_auto · May 4, 2017, 05:23 PM

I know several people who have holsters or magnets mounted under their dash for easy access. They place their gun in the holster or stick it to the magnet when they get in the car, put it back on their body when they get out.

Ram Mount holster:

Tac Mag gun magnet:

ShootistPRS · May 4, 2017, 05:34 PM

State laws will determine if having your gun "off your person" will be legal or not. In Washington you are supposed to have the gun on your person.

g.willikers · May 5, 2017, 02:10 PM

There's entire defense courses offered for dealing with being in a car.
Like what to expect if you shoot through the windows.
And how to keep from being blocked by the steering wheel and seat belt.
Since we spend so much time in our cars, learning how to deal with threats while in a car could be a real good idea.

T. O'Heir · May 6, 2017, 11:45 AM

"...seated in the car I can't..." Then you have it in the wrong place. Cross draw is good in vehicles. Mind you, driving away is a lot faster.
That Ram Mount, even empty, would be an invitation to a thief.
"...As far as beggars are concerned..." Lot of 'em make more money than you'd think. Friend of mine's kid, at 13 or so, decided he didn't want to live with mommy anymore. Went to TO, lived under a bridge and was making $350Cdn. a week as a squeegee kid. That's was when $350 was more money than it is now. Even with no taxes.

TXAZ · May 6, 2017, 12:17 PM

Shootist suggested:

Quote:

The first rule of engagement: never lose control of the situation.

I'll submit a 'first rule of situational awareness' should proceed the 'first rule of engagement': Maintain situational awareness and avoid 'situations'.

A few panhandlers border on (virtual) intimidation robbery. I've previously offered to buy them a bigmac / nearest fast food entre'. Few are interested, they want the $$$'s for drugs, booze or cigarettes.
After a few turned sour, I don't offer anymore. I either start the car and move on safely, or if they are too close answer them in a foreign language they won't understand and start moving on without being rude.

mete · May 6, 2017, 01:53 PM

I learned a lot being raised in NYC.
Subway beggars had their territories and times . Other beggars better not violate those conditions . Their appearance , actions and words are meant to evoke your emotions.
Today dealing with drug addicts are a different .They can be very dangerous.
Always leave space between the car in front and the one behind you. An old trick was a team that tried to get one car close in front and one close behind you. You are then blocked in !! Don't be afraid to act quickly and forcefully even if you have to run into someone. That old Chevy is better than a 44 !!!

MandolinMan · May 6, 2017, 03:46 PM

I had a similar situation several years ago that occurred late on a rainy, dark night. While nothing happened, it did make me stop and think through how it could have been better handled. First, I would start the vehicle if its not already running. Also, leaving the window up is solid advice. If possible, avoid the situation all together.

2123 · May 7, 2017, 10:24 PM

If you don't take CONTROL of the situation........the situation will take CONTROL of you!

Don Fischer · May 8, 2017, 11:57 AM

I suspect that no one really know's what to do in a situation until it actually happen's. I really like that mounted holster system. One thing wrong is it look's like it's in plain view even without a gun in it. I'd just as soon nobody know's I have a gun. Also I suspect it would make you a target down the road for anyone that see's it. I simply keep my gun on my belt while driving. I don't keep a button on my shirt buttoned then either. My holster is not the latest and greatest but it does hold my gun and give me decent access. It lean's forward just a bit and is not difficult to get out. If there was some way to hide that mounted holster system, that would be great but if not, it's an open invitation to thief's. In the case of someone walking up to the door like that, I hear what they have to say and leave! The longer you sit there, the more time there is for something to go wrong. Keep the car in gear, foot off the brake and on the gas will happen faster than you can probably draw your weapon.

Danoobie · May 8, 2017, 12:44 PM

Some training says if your holster is by your seat belt release,
to ride the seat belt up with your gun, as you draw.

In any event, it makes sense to work out your own car
defense strategy, in advance.

**OldMarksman** · May 8, 2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Some training says if your holster is by your seat belt release,
to ride the seat belt up with your gun, as you draw.

Can't quite picture what you are trying to describe...

2123 · May 8, 2017, 08:43 PM

Maybe he's saying in so many words, to release the seat belt as you draw your gun.

If I find myself needing to draw my gun while seated in a vehicle, the last thing that I would want around me is a seat belt.

MosinNOUGAT · May 8, 2017, 08:51 PM

Also, if you are shooting through the windshield the curve of most will make bullets hit high, so a shot aimed at the pelvis will most likely hit the chest. Best to double tap, one to break the windshield and one to hit the enemy.

FireForged · May 9, 2017, 06:02 PM

get in the car.. move the car. There are plenty of options that do not rely on a gun.

Danoobie · May 9, 2017, 08:44 PM

Well, if you are shooting through the glass,
as FireForged said, why not just drive away?

EDC isn't just a gun,(well, for some of us, at least,
who want to have something useful, which they constantly need,
with them, besides a firearm they may never, ever use)
a bright light may blind someone
long enough to just drive away, and avoid a confrontation
entirely.

Ready to spill, there, yet, Adizzle19?

**OldMarksman** · May 9, 2017, 10:05 PM

The question should not be one about whether to open the window or how to access one's gun or whether to shoot through glass. It should be one about avoidance, escape, and evasion.

Why would anyone even consider threatening the use of deadly force because someone has asked for money or food?

2123 · May 10, 2017, 01:21 PM

The question should not be one about whether to open the window or how to access one's gun or whether to shoot through glass. It should be one about avoidance, escape, and evasion.

Why would anyone even consider threatening the use of deadly force because someone has asked for money or food?

Many will use that pretense to approach others and size them up, or see if they are cooperative.

Doesn't matter if you are in a car or are on foot. Half the battle for the criminal is to make contact, catch you off-guard, and go about their business.

SIGSHR · May 10, 2017, 02:21 PM

Between drug use and too lenient treatment of mental cases, there are a lot of crazies out there. Bad situations happen very quickly. Then there is the question of using a vehicle for self defense. Disparity of force. Flight equals guilt. If you do use your vehicle you will still have to wait for the police.

**OldMarksman** · May 10, 2017, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Many will use that pretense to approach others and size them up, or see if they are cooperative.

Doesn't matter if you are in a car or are on foot. Half the battle for the criminal is to make contact, catch you off-guard, and go about their business.

It takes a lot more than that to justify reaching for a weapon.

K_Mac · May 10, 2017, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Well, if you are shooting through the glass,
as FireForged said, why not just drive away?

I read your posts Danoobie, and can't help wondering if you just trolling to see how much you can get away with. Maybe you're trying to be funny. It's not working if that is the case. Advocating committing a felony here is generally frowned upon.

May 4, 2017, 01:46 PM	#1
Adizzle19 Member Join Date: September 6, 2014 Posts: 75	Strategies for defense in a car I had an experience the other day that got me thinking about using your pistol to defend yourself inside a vehicle. I had just sat down in my car and closed the door when a man approached my driver side window waving at me. I rolled down to see what he wanted. It was the standard story - looking for a bite to eat, any money would help sort of thing, but he was more persistent than most. I tried to give him a couple quarters in a cup holder but he wanted more. The interaction ended when I told him that was all I could do and he took it. From this I think I learned two main things: don't even open the window and that while I'm seated in the car I can't really reach my gun and I'm vulnerable. I started reading on using your pistol in the car and most had suggestions that didn't really apply to that situation. Hoping to learn about some of your strategies for using a pistol in and around vehicles. When I've heard from a few I'll share a new strategy I've devised.

May 4, 2017, 03:10 PM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Definitely don't open the window. You can hear all that's needed with it closed. And lock the door. If things get suspicious, drive away. No further conversation, just drive away. Unless the situation absolutely calls for it, don't even show your gun. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

May 5, 2017, 02:10 PM	#8
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	There's entire defense courses offered for dealing with being in a car. Like what to expect if you shoot through the windows. And how to keep from being blocked by the steering wheel and seat belt. Since we spend so much time in our cars, learning how to deal with threats while in a car could be a real good idea. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

May 6, 2017, 11:45 AM	#9
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...seated in the car I can't..." Then you have it in the wrong place. Cross draw is good in vehicles. Mind you, driving away is a lot faster. That Ram Mount, even empty, would be an invitation to a thief. "...As far as beggars are concerned..." Lot of 'em make more money than you'd think. Friend of mine's kid, at 13 or so, decided he didn't want to live with mommy anymore. Went to TO, lived under a bridge and was making $350Cdn. a week as a squeegee kid. That's was when $350 was more money than it is now. Even with no taxes. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 6, 2017, 01:53 PM	#11
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I learned a lot being raised in NYC. Subway beggars had their territories and times . Other beggars better not violate those conditions . Their appearance , actions and words are meant to evoke your emotions. Today dealing with drug addicts are a different .They can be very dangerous. Always leave space between the car in front and the one behind you. An old trick was a team that tried to get one car close in front and one close behind you. You are then blocked in !! Don't be afraid to act quickly and forcefully even if you have to run into someone. That old Chevy is better than a 44 !!! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

May 4, 2017, 03:38 PM	#3
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	The first rule of engagement: never lose control of the situation. Your experience is not unlike the one I had but the conditions were safer. I was helping out at a police training event when I realized that I could not get to my gun while sitting in the car. Shortly after that class I started trying to access my gun from all kinds of positions and found that a waist band holster was extremely limiting. I tried all kinds of different holsters and finally chose a shoulder holster. I can get to my gun in any position and under most every circumstance. In your case if he had a knife you could be dead. If he had a gun you could be dead. If he had a piece of pipe you could be dead. Leaving the window up, with the car running would have kept you in control. Giving him money rewards him for his audacity and may encourage violence in the future. As far as beggars are concerned I don't carry cash. If they need groceries, I have offered to buy groceries for them. If they are hungry, I have offered to feed them. Of all the times I have been approached for money only one guy accepted a meal. The rest just wanted cash or were not interested.

May 4, 2017, 05:13 PM	#4
Adizzle19 Member Join Date: September 6, 2014 Posts: 75	Thanks for the replies so far. I agree completely: don't open the window. Driving away immediately would have been ideal. I was parallel parked so tricky but better. I'm thinking of moving my pistol from 3:30 to an aiwb position around 1:00 so I can access it better in the car. I don't love aiwb because of the potential for muzzling myself, but in order to access it it might win out. I occasionally carry my shield there but I might increase the frequency of how I do it. When I get some time I may run a few unloaded draw drills while sitting, which I've never done. There was a little bit lost in the reselling of the story, I opened the window about 3" only and I told him I didn't carry cash. The major points are the same. I may consider a shoulder holster as well. Any models for a G19 you'd recommend? Horizontal or vertical?

May 4, 2017, 05:15 PM	#5
shafter Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2009 Posts: 1,624	Don't open your windows, and make sure you lock your doors. If things start to escalate just drive away. Short of shooting at you, a perp isn't much of a threat to you unless you're boxed in and can't drive away. That being said it's good practice to carry your gun where you can access it no matter how you're sitting.

May 4, 2017, 05:23 PM	#6
45_auto Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2011 Location: Southern Louisiana Posts: 1,399	I know several people who have holsters or magnets mounted under their dash for easy access. They place their gun in the holster or stick it to the magnet when they get in the car, put it back on their body when they get out. Ram Mount holster: Tac Mag gun magnet:

May 4, 2017, 05:34 PM	#7
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	State laws will determine if having your gun "off your person" will be legal or not. In Washington you are supposed to have the gun on your person.

May 6, 2017, 03:46 PM	#12
MandolinMan Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2013 Posts: 339	I had a similar situation several years ago that occurred late on a rainy, dark night. While nothing happened, it did make me stop and think through how it could have been better handled. First, I would start the vehicle if its not already running. Also, leaving the window up is solid advice. If possible, avoid the situation all together.

May 7, 2017, 10:24 PM	#13
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	If you don't take CONTROL of the situation........the situation will take CONTROL of you! __________________ Airborne Rangers Lead The Way.

May 8, 2017, 11:57 AM	#14
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I suspect that no one really know's what to do in a situation until it actually happen's. I really like that mounted holster system. One thing wrong is it look's like it's in plain view even without a gun in it. I'd just as soon nobody know's I have a gun. Also I suspect it would make you a target down the road for anyone that see's it. I simply keep my gun on my belt while driving. I don't keep a button on my shirt buttoned then either. My holster is not the latest and greatest but it does hold my gun and give me decent access. It lean's forward just a bit and is not difficult to get out. If there was some way to hide that mounted holster system, that would be great but if not, it's an open invitation to thief's. In the case of someone walking up to the door like that, I hear what they have to say and leave! The longer you sit there, the more time there is for something to go wrong. Keep the car in gear, foot off the brake and on the gas will happen faster than you can probably draw your weapon.

May 8, 2017, 12:44 PM	#15
Danoobie Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2017 Posts: 351	Some training says if your holster is by your seat belt release, to ride the seat belt up with your gun, as you draw. In any event, it makes sense to work out your own car defense strategy, in advance.

May 8, 2017, 08:43 PM	#17
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	Maybe he's saying in so many words, to release the seat belt as you draw your gun. If I find myself needing to draw my gun while seated in a vehicle, the last thing that I would want around me is a seat belt. __________________ Airborne Rangers Lead The Way.

May 8, 2017, 08:51 PM	#18
MosinNOUGAT Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2017 Location: Southwest US Posts: 148	Also, if you are shooting through the windshield the curve of most will make bullets hit high, so a shot aimed at the pelvis will most likely hit the chest. Best to double tap, one to break the windshield and one to hit the enemy. __________________ O LA VITTORIA, O TUTTI ACCOPPATI!

May 9, 2017, 06:02 PM	#19
FireForged Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Rebel South USA Posts: 2,074	get in the car.. move the car. There are plenty of options that do not rely on a gun. __________________ Life is a web woven by necessity and chance...

May 9, 2017, 08:44 PM	#20
Danoobie Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2017 Posts: 351	Well, if you are shooting through the glass, as FireForged said, why not just drive away? EDC isn't just a gun,(well, for some of us, at least, who want to have something useful, which they constantly need, with them, besides a firearm they may never, ever use) a bright light may blind someone long enough to just drive away, and avoid a confrontation entirely. Ready to spill, there, yet, Adizzle19? Last edited by Danoobie; May 9, 2017 at 08:54 PM.

May 9, 2017, 10:05 PM	#21
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	The question should not be one about whether to open the window or how to access one's gun or whether to shoot through glass. It should be one about avoidance, escape, and evasion. Why would anyone even consider threatening the use of deadly force because someone has asked for money or food?

May 10, 2017, 01:21 PM	#22
2123 Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2014 Location: It changes.....a lot. Posts: 356	The question should not be one about whether to open the window or how to access one's gun or whether to shoot through glass. It should be one about avoidance, escape, and evasion. Why would anyone even consider threatening the use of deadly force because someone has asked for money or food? Many will use that pretense to approach others and size them up, or see if they are cooperative. Doesn't matter if you are in a car or are on foot. Half the battle for the criminal is to make contact, catch you off-guard, and go about their business. __________________ Airborne Rangers Lead The Way.

May 10, 2017, 02:21 PM	#23
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Between drug use and too lenient treatment of mental cases, there are a lot of crazies out there. Bad situations happen very quickly. Then there is the question of using a vehicle for self defense. Disparity of force. Flight equals guilt. If you do use your vehicle you will still have to wait for the police.