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Old March 11, 2023, 02:39 PM   #1
e-bear
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1st shot from sidelock rifle

I have a .45 cal ML sidelock that I aquired about 25 years ago. Its a compilation rifle from several different kits but I didn't put it together. Been hanging on a wall ever since and looks pretty cool. I'm gonna try to shoot it. The barrel and nipple are clear without any obstruction. The bore is .450 and I have a box of LRBs at .445. I have some patches of unknown thickness as well as #11 caps and some 3f powder. I also have pre-lubed felt wads for .45. Its been probably 30 years or more since I have shot a patched RB....
With all that said I was wondering how much charge I should safely use as a starting load.....
If this thing shoots somewhat accurately I might try to take a deer with it this next season. I figure if I can get a deer within crossbow range it'll be fun to take it with this old bastardized kit gun....
I'm sure there's a bunch of yall with a bunch more black powder knowledge than what I have that can offer some sage advice.
Looking forward to some input.
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Old March 11, 2023, 06:22 PM   #2
Hawg
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60-80 grains with a round ball. You will have to experiment with loads and patches. A .440 ball will probably work best.
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Old March 11, 2023, 11:42 PM   #3
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experiment

You'll find out pretty quickly if your .445" RB's will seat easily with any given patch material. I suspect that said patching will have to be really thin to allow driving a ball home w/o undo pressure. That especially so after a shot or two. As HAWG advised, a .440" will allow for thicker patch material and or easier seating.

But....you have the other on hand for the time being anyhow. I've always heard that an equal amount of powder to bore diameter is a good starting point for a RB load. I'd be inclined to say 45 grains for your .45 rifle and go up. I shoot 50 grains in my .50 rifle that will tolerate RB's as a target load as an example. I would also swab the barrel between shots, as we anticipate a snug fit with your .445" RB. You will likely find that you need very thin patch material and ample lube with your somewhat oversize RB's. Recover some shot patches, determine if they are burning through or burning up, or are staying largely intact. If burned up, lower powder charge or find a tougher patch material (OR smaller ball and thicker patch).

Hawg's 60-80 grains would be a deer load in my estimation.
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Old March 12, 2023, 09:42 PM   #4
e-bear
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Thanx HAWG and Bamaranger. I Think I'll just hang it back up on the wall until I get smaller RBs.
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Old March 13, 2023, 01:51 PM   #5
Pahoo
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Listen to the M/L Hope the bug, bites you !!!

The general rule of thumb is The caliber for the min. and 2X the caliber for the max. "Somewhere" in between you will find your optimum target and hunting-load. You will determine these two by some fun-time, at the range. As far as the .445 RB's, that is an acceptable round but don't fight the patch and try a lubricated .010 Patch, to start with........

Example; I have a .50 TC-Hawken model. It is "rated" for 120grns. My optimum target-load, is 70 and my optimum hunting load, is 95. Keep in mind that a PRB , is very forgiving. ......

One very important rule, is to have "fun" ......

Be Safe !!!
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Last edited by Pahoo; March 13, 2023 at 07:05 PM.
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Old March 14, 2023, 05:50 AM   #6
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Its important that the ball gets rammed all the way to seat on the powder.

I think Hawg's advice on ball size and patch thickness is good. I had good luck with the classic blue and white striped pillow ticking. Wash the sizing out of it.
After a while I got lazy and started using OxYoke patches.
If you are going to use a patch knife, a strip of pillow ticking is good.

I think a .445 ball and thin patch will be less forgiving of fouling when you push the ball home,

Your powder charge will run a bit like rich /lean in an engine. Too much powder will quickly build up crunchy fouling that will make pushing the ball to the powder difficult.
If you only get 2 or 4 shots off before you have to wet swab, reduce your powder.

Your charge is burning pretty clean if you can go 5 + without wet swabbing,
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Old March 14, 2023, 11:00 AM   #7
Pahoo
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Dealing with the practicasl before the particulars.

Quote:
I think a .445 ball and thin patch will be less forgiving of fouling when you push the ball home,
e-bear
You really won't know this until it's confirmed at the range, by you. ....
Back in the 80's. I shot competition at Friendship, with a shot-string that included .445PRB and .010 lubricate patch. If this is what you have, there is nothing wrong with using the .445's. Fouling is always present, no matter what you shoot but it's a tertiary problem, that is further down "this learnig curve".

Enjoy and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old March 15, 2023, 11:41 PM   #8
Sure Shot Mc Gee
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Have taken a deer or two with my T/c 45. I load up a .445 ball for the first shot with 77 grs. 2-FFG. There after for ease of reloading in a fouled barrel those shots the ball is .440. Same powder charge w/.010 thousands patch. I aim for the throat white patch_ lower neck or back spine. All are >a quick dispatch for the animals benefit.
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Old April 1, 2023, 10:45 AM   #9
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The bore is 450 - is that land to land or grove to grove ? If it has deep rifling it's meant for PRB, shallow rifling then for a bullet, like a Minnie. Buy some all cotton material that does not have sizing added. You'll have to ask for it. Then wash it. The material will compress some, so you'll have to figure that in. Buy some 440 and 445 RBs and see what will work with different size patching material. Over the years I've had to hammer the patched ball down and at other times it'll slide down quite nicely. The really tight fits are more for target work. After you shoot check the patches to make sure none are burnt through. The patch will hold the lube which makes loading easier, but also as something to fill the rifling and grip the ball so it'll spin. It's one of the things you'll have to play with for best results. What kind of lube, thickness of the patching, diameter of the ball, and then how much powder of 2 or 3F. A 45 could be 2 or 3F. 60 to 80 grains would be nice. And you'll have to run a cleaning patch down after every shot. Make sure it's big enough to stay on the jag. And don't throw it away after every shot. It can be reused 10 or 15 times. Use a little 409 and water for a 50/50 mix to wet the patch. Just moisten the patch, not dripping wet. You're not really cleaning the bore but soften the fouling and making the bore more uniform from shot to shot. Some 50 years ago I went from Maxi Balls to PRB and not cleaning after every shot I was using a metal ram rod and a big tree to beat the PRB down the barrel . I learned in a real hurry there was a learning curve to shooting PRBs. When TC built their hammer guns the rifling in barrels were 4 to .005 deep and were a trade off so their Maxie balls or PRBs could be shot. If you tried really upping the charge to say 100 or higher many times the PRB would skip the rifling giving poor groups. Where as a Bill Large custom barrel was more like .012 to .015 deep and you could load one about as heavy as you wanted. I made a " chunk gun " with one of his barrels. It was 1 1/2" across the flats, 50" long, and 54 cal. I normally use a 530 or 535 RB in my Hawken I built with one of his barrels, but he recommended and built me a 542 RB mold for this gun. With .020 patching I had to start the ball with a small brass hammer. It would do a nice one hole group at 60 yards with 90grs of 3f. Go shoot what you have and see what it does. That's the fun of PRB shooting.

Last edited by bladesmith 1; April 1, 2023 at 10:51 AM.
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Old April 2, 2023, 08:45 PM   #10
4V50 Gary
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Twist determines whether the bore was intended for RB or minie.
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Old April 3, 2023, 10:58 AM   #11
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Good Point !!!

Quote:
Twist determines whether the bore was intended for RB or minie.
This is true and once you define this, you will have a better idea of what Shot-String works best for you. A "PRB", is more forgiving than a "Conical". It's fairly easy to determine the twist. There are times when I choose to verify a listed twist, just to make me feel better. On your barrel, I do have a SWAG but regardless, you want to check this yourself. Please let us know what you have.

Have Fun and;
Be Safe !!!
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Old April 3, 2023, 12:13 PM   #12
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"Most" sidelock rifles have a 1:48 twist.
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