Long distance rookie

[308Loader]

Longest range I have to shoot at my club is 200M. I have enough practice for this to become almost boring. Don’t get me wrong, it is a good poke that makes me work the fundamentals on my part. Rifles I have are plenty capable of this distance and group well when I do my part. I am taking a trip out to the desert and have an opportunity to shoot much farther, possibly out to 1K. I have one week to prep and can take only one gun from the safe.

The question is what one will it be? Looking for input. Choices are:
Rem700P – 308 win – 5-24x FSI sniper
Savage Mod 10 T/SR – 308 win – 5-24x vortex
Thompson - 25-06 Rem – 4-16x leo – heavier barrel profile
Rem700 – 7mm Mag – 1-4x unknown – hunting profile barrel – circa 1960-70’s, still shoots great.
Weatherby MK V - 30-378 WBY Mag - up to 30x unknown scope – thinner fluted barrel – has issues from cold bore to follow up shots. Groups well after 2nd round

I have others that will get there but feel are not the best for the trip. 6.5 Grendel, 556 NATO, 762x39?

I do hand load for all of the above, So now for the second question. Lighter faster bullets pushed hard? Heavier bullets to buck wind but drop faster? In-between HPBT or VLD-ELD bullets? Light weight monolithic pushed hard? Not needing terminal affect, just some good hits.

Feeling like the 308win with 155 gr HPBT @ 2600 fps to whatever groups best on the high end is best choice (Palma style with scope?), what do you all think?

Thank you for any constructive input you might have. Short timeline doesn’t give me much to reconfigure anything I have set up or test many rounds. Not looking for match level performance out of any of this but maybe a couple of good hits and a good time with my dad.

[Scorch]

My 2 cents worth:
308 rifle (you choose which one) loaded with high BC bullets that your rifle likes, 170-180 gr.

While the 7mag and 30-378 may have an advantage in speed and trajectory, you won't hold up shooting monsters cartridges. The recoil and muzzle blast will make you develop a flinch.

I'm not sure where "the desert" is from MN (WY, ND, SD???), there should be targets of opportunity (jack rabbits, ground squirrels, etc) you can shoot at at unknown distances. Learn to estimate range with mil dot (have your spotter verify with laser) if you want to become good at shooting at unknown distance long range.

If you are planning on F-class or 1K shoots, those are shot from a stable surface at known distances and are more a shooter vs shooter or rifle vs rifle competition (wind doping and shot timing). Tactical rifle matches are more about unknown distances and field shooting skills (range estimation, wind doping, mirage reading, etc). Pick which one you like and practice accordingly.

[HiBC]

I can't make your choices.I'd go with one of your 308's.
I must confess I have not worked with 155s much. Obviously,they meet the needs of Palma competitors.

For some unknown reason, My DPMS and my brother's AR-10 T did not shoot so well with them. About 2 MOA at 100. . I don't blame the bullet. Obviously,they WILL shoot. It MAY have something to do with seating depth, lands,leade,etc.

I would have seated to magazine length or utilizing the case neck. The lands were not in contact . I don't know the jump. I gave one box of bullets a try.

At the time,175 gr MK's were scarce. 168 gr MK's and Nosler Custom Comps were easy to find and they shot very well. Well under 1 MOA in the AR-10 and + or- 1 MOA in the DPMS. Varget was the powder. We got about 2700 fps. Maybe 1 grain under book max.

As I recall,published Army Sniper Doctrine says the transition from supersonic to subsonic occurs at about 800 meters. That compromises bullet stability and can degrade accuracy. I won't argue with those who have real experience. I'm not a sniper and I don't play one on TV. If I set targets at 1k I use my 30-338 or my 7mm Rem. I do not have 1 k experience with a 308. ( OK, I'm ready. Go ahead. Tell me to buy a 6.5 Manbun)

Supposedly, the 175 gr MK works better at ranges over 800 meters I have heard. I do not have experience.

[44 AMP]

If you've got the guns and the range, get some experience...

The transition from supersonic to subsonic does destablize the bullet some, BUT the bullet will restabilze at the subsonic speed after a little bit, and that's why they are still used and accurate at 1,000m.

From what I've read, its something like bullet goes subsonic at say 800 destabilizes some, so a group at 850 or 900 will be bigger than the one at 700 (proportionally) but by the time the bullet gets to 1,000 (or somewhere close on the way) it has again "found its spin" and so the group at 1,000 can be better (smaller) than one just after the transonic change point.

or so I've heard. Never got bit by the 1,000yd bug myself. I have mostly deer or varmint rifles and while I've shot to 600 with the .308 (at silhouettes) don't have personal experience shoot the really long range stuff for groups.

[Jim Watson]

I shot some F-TR with a .308, mostly 175gr SMK and the heaviest load of Varget that grouped well. I tried the 155gr Scenar which should have been equal or better, but leaned to the 175 in MY barrels.

[Shadow9mm]

Bottom line, run your loads in a ballistics calculator. Is it still showing supersonic at 1k , preferably a little past?

The 169g smk was designed specifically for 308 at 1k. The 168smk has stability issues at 1k. The 175g smk will get you there too.

[bamaranger]

One of the .308's with the higher magnification optics would be my choice, especially if you go to 100 yd plus. If you do go to 1000 yd +, wind will be your biggest challenge, provided you are shooting known distance and already have your come-ups.

I shot just enough F-T/R at 1000 yd to learn: 1) I wasn't as good a shot as I thought I was, 2) the sport was expensive, enough I would have to cut spending on other hobbies (read hunt club dues), 3) I couldn't read wind worth a hoot. The very capable shooter that started me shot 175's on the premise the high BC slugs slipped the wind better.

I think the Palma shooters use 155 gr because the rules say they must shoot that bullet weight.......period

[308Loader]

Thanks everyone for the input. This trip will be a learning experience. Settled on the .308 Win in Savage 10-T-SR. Have loads I think will do ok to 500+. looking for the SMK 175's couldn't find any at LGS, found some 178 ELD Match. Going to work up a load for these and see how they do tomorrow.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by 308Loader

Thanks everyone for the input. This trip will be a learning experience. Settled on the .308 Win in Savage 10-T-SR. Have loads I think will do ok to 500+. looking for the SMK 175's couldn't find any at LGS, found some 178 ELD Match. Going to work up a load for these and see how they do tomorrow.

IMHO a great bullet choice. Keep us in the loop.

[308Loader]

After action report

So went with the Savage 10-T in 308 Win, worked up some loads with the 178 ELD. Couldn’t get them to perform verry well with limited testing in this rifle, 5 shot ladder up to max Hornady book. I’m sure it needs some tweaking on my part for this rifle. Fell back on the 155 HPBT @XX.0gr IMR4064. This load tested well at 100 yrds with standard COL 2.800, 1/2” group with one pulled shot or flyer. Wind was wicked and all over according to the flags at the range (Ben Avery, 200-500M). Tail wind at the bench and best I could tell 3 different directions out to 500M. 200-300 was easy, got a little lost at 4-500M. Was able to connect a few times at the longer distances but NOT repeatable from shot to shot. Didn’t crank on the scope knobs, just using the holdovers in the scope reticle and watching the splashes. Good learning experience and a great time shooting with my dad. Thank you all for the input. Bottom line, I think I need more practice as a shooter at the longer distances and maybe a heaver bullet or les wind.

Much thanks to AZ DNR fish and game. Awesome range and good people. Cant wait to try again next year!

[jmr40]

If you want to have fun at your 200 meter range buy an accurate 22 and top it with a good scope. It will make you better at longer ranges with your centerfire rifles. I've read others state that shooting a 22 at 200 is comparable to a 308 at 600.

I've shot as far as 250 yards with a 22. It isn't boring.

[tangolima]

I have access to 300yd (270m) range. Going beyond will cost more at other location. I play this little game to keep the practice more interesting.

I have multiple reduced size targets to emulate longer ranges, 500yd to 1000yd, set at 300yd. I have to hit one with no more than 2 cold bore shots before promoted to the next target farther away. 10 minutes between each attempt to keep the bore cold. It forces me to re-read the wind each time.

Maybe counter intuitive, cross wind closer to the firing position is more critical than closer to the target. Head and tail winds make little or no difference in poi.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[zeke]

You might consider using the elevation knobs, as some find them more consistent/precise (repeatable) than using hold overs. If you are using the center dot on your reticle, might consider using the reticle marks to "bracket" the target, if your scope's reticle and target are compatible with this.

[bacardisteve]

The 155gr pills will get you there. Depending on barell length and load some of the 168gr pills will get you there. I have a 20" rem 700 5r 308 that loves 168 amax with a stiff load of varget.

[std7mag]

Glad to hear you had a good time!!

And just as an eye opener, your 6.5 Grendel would have worked fine also.
People are making hits at 1 mile with that cartridge.

200 yards is considered short range. Not too much to worry about as far as windage, unless your shooting IBS/UBR benchrest competition.

Once you get to 400 yards & further, the wind becomes a reality.
Heavier bullets with better BC is the norm here.

As far as glass.
Get the best you can afford!!
Quality glass, with higher magnification will help you immensely!!
It will also help you see what the mirage is doing!

[oldmanFCSA]

Go BIG and stretch them out to 4000 yards.

Otherwise play with the 25-06 with 131 grain or &mm Rem Mag with 175 to 195 grain for practice before trying ELR-ULR ranges.

308's drop off too fast beyond 800 yards, but are predictable.

ELR

338 Lapua Magnum
416 Barrett
460Steyr
50BMG

plus a whole bunch of quality wildcats now available.

Have FUN
Be SAFE.

[David Todd]

I shoot fullbore match rifles, 223, 6mmBR, and 308 at 1,000 with irons.
The .223 will do it, but I have a fast twist and shoot 75 and 80.5 grain bullet out of it.
The 6mmBR makes the trip easily with 105-108 grain match bullets and a boat load of Varget.
I shoot the 308 mostly at long range, with bullet ranging from 155 to 168 grains, with either H4895 or Varget, depending on the rifle.On a good day , I need to shoot 96% or better to " stay in the hunt" so to speak .
The ICFRA TR ( sling and irons for .223 and 308) V bull for long range match shooting ( 700 to 1,000 meters) is 12", the bull is 24"
Basically cut that in half for Fclass ( scopes and bipod or front rest).
We have had guys at our range show up without ever shooting past 300 meters and at the end of the day we have them on the 3MOA plate at 1,000 with no issues, with scoped rifles and bipods from 6.5Creedmoor to 300 mags, the 308 is very popular as well.

David

[Bart B.]

The best time to test 1000-yard loads is about half an hour before sunrise when the air is still.

Ball and dummy exercises with someone will help you hold the rifle still until after the round fires.