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Old February 1, 2023, 06:43 PM   #1
Dano4734
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Thoughts on 300 gr barnes 45-70 hollow points for moose

I bought a box to reload, thinking about using them for moose this fall. Any one have experience with these on moose. Thank you my friends. I have taken them with my 30-06 and with 405 hard cast in the 45-70 but looking for something better ine the 45-70
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Old February 1, 2023, 06:56 PM   #2
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Looking for a little bit flatter shooting than the 405 hardcast. Am I thinking wrong? This year maximum yards would be 200
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Old February 1, 2023, 09:17 PM   #3
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No matter what, 300 gr bullets out of a 45-70 will likely kill a moose. Only about 1,700-2,000 ft-lbs of energy there, but a lot of momentum and moose die pretty easy.
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Old February 2, 2023, 03:31 AM   #4
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Looking for a little bit flatter shooting than the 405 hardcast. Am I thinking wrong? This year maximum yards would be 200
What rifle? Looking at my old tables, and not having exactly the bullets you're talking about in them, I can only offer rough numbers, but if you get a 400gr slug to 1700fps and a 300 to 2000fps the difference in drop between them at 200yds is about 4 inches (100yd zero)

A 400gr FP @ 1700fps drops ROUGHLY 16.5" at 200 and a 300gr HP @ 2000drops ROUGHLY 12.5" at the same distance.

Of course, you can't get that with all .45-70 rifles. At lower speeds the amount of drop naturally increases, but the difference in the drop between the two bullets should stay about the same.

I would caution you to check with the maker and made sure the bullet you pick is designed to work at the speed you are going to shoot it. A bullet designed to expand at black powder speed fired several hundred fps faster by a heavy load fired in a modern rifle can come apart. The Speer 400gr jacketed is famous for this. Great bullet for what it was made to do, not so good when fired too fast.

A quick call to the maker should tell you if the bullet you choose is suitable for the velocity you plan on.
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Old February 2, 2023, 09:22 AM   #5
Dano4734
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Thank you it’s a modern marlin 22 inch barrel. I am going to use 44 gr of imr4198 from my email to barnes response. Thanks again
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Old February 3, 2023, 04:44 PM   #6
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So barnes makes 2 holllow points that I see on midway one that has a gaping hollow point, one with a small hollow point and very tapered nose.
1st https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010402742?pid=330121

2ndhttps://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010405684?pid=419728

If its the first one, with the gaping hollow point, I would not use it. Have a friend who tried them on deer. 500 S&W mag out of a 20in barrel. It was bad news. Ruptured most of the internal organs. Shock wave from the hollow point was so strong it bruised most of the meat on the far side of the deer. Granted the 2 deer he shot with them dropped on the spot and didn't move. but it was a lot of wasted meat
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Old February 3, 2023, 05:04 PM   #7
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Living in Alaska for three years and being a Military Conservation Officer for two of those years, I can clearly say, the only 45-70 I ran across was carried mostly as a backup gun and hard cast or jacketed flat nose bullets were the choice. Penetration was the key element, but that was for brown bears. Most folks carried low-end 30-06 with 300 and 338 Win Mag being the most popular. Of course, that was over 25 years ago and bullets have changed a lot in that time, especially with copper. For moose, I will leave that to the experts on that type of bullet. I am just learning on that stuff myself.

I can say, most of the areas I have hunted and also worked was thick. Only caribou like the open tundra. So, 45-70 I think would be a great choice as most shots are usually within 100 yards.

Last edited by USAF Ret; February 4, 2023 at 01:48 AM.
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Old February 3, 2023, 05:24 PM   #8
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Moose

Used Barnes for .358 Bellm but in TTSX with success and penetration.

Did use Barnes Buster once in .444 Marlin. Excellent penetration on moose.

Best of luck!
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Old February 3, 2023, 06:03 PM   #9
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Have a friend who tried them on deer. 500 S&W mag out of a 20in barrel.
\
First point, the OP is looking at .45 caliber bullets, not .50.

Second point is that many bullets made for optimal expansion at handgun velocities are "overdriven" at carbine speeds.

The OP has contacted Barnes and has been given a load from them for the bullets he has. Seems to me all he needs do now is load up sight in and go hunting.
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Old February 3, 2023, 06:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
\
First point, the OP is looking at .45 caliber bullets, not .50.

Second point is that many bullets made for optimal expansion at handgun velocities are "overdriven" at carbine speeds.

The OP has contacted Barnes and has been given a load from them for the bullets he has. Seems to me all he needs do now is load up sight in and go hunting.
Yes it is a 45 vs a 50. however it is a similar bullet profile, with the same construction, from the same manufacturer, with a similar weight, being driven at a similar speed. While it was used on deer not moose, I felt it may it may give some ballpark of expected performance which is why I commented.

Dano4734, If you hunt with these please let us know how they perform.
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Old February 4, 2023, 12:53 PM   #11
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it is a similar bullet profile, with the same construction, from the same manufacturer, with a similar weight, being driven at a similar speed.
It's a reasonable assumption, but unless the maker tells you they are the same, do you really know??

My point here is that "identical" bullets can be constructed of different alloys to give different performance in different situations, and just looking at the bullet doesn't tell you anything beyond what you see.
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Old February 4, 2023, 02:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
It's a reasonable assumption, but unless the maker tells you they are the same, do you really know??

My point here is that "identical" bullets can be constructed of different alloys to give different performance in different situations, and just looking at the bullet doesn't tell you anything beyond what you see.
My point is, what you can see tells you a lot. For example a projectile with a large volume hollow point cavity generally creates more hydrostatic shock. While the alloy can alter the performance characteristics no good designer is going to use an alloy to try and completely subvert the bullets inherent design. They would pick a bullet design im line with their performance goals and go from there.
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Old February 4, 2023, 05:36 PM   #13
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I’ve only shot one moose, with 375H&H with 300gr Hornady RNSP. I have also helped field dress several others. 30/06-200gr Core-lock, 7mm mag - 175gr Sierra Sp. and couple others that I forget what they were taken with.
Moose heavy animal, myself I would feel better with a good sp bullet. A text book shot through chest cavity might benefit from a HP. On other hand if you hit major bone the HP
is not as effective. If I planned on 200yd shots I wouldn’t be carrying a 45/70 anyway. I was banking on 100yds and shot mine at 40yds. Actually could have scuffed it with any rifle I own, including old JM 1895 from 60s or one of my 35 Rems.
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Old February 4, 2023, 08:44 PM   #14
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My point is, what you can see tells you a lot.
What you see does tell you a lot, but not everything.

Quote:
For example a projectile with a large volume hollow point cavity generally creates more hydrostatic shock.
yes, and ...no...in a way.

What it tells me is that a bullet with a large hollow point cavity is intended to expand as much as practical, and it is that expansion (when it happens properly) that creates more hydrostatic shock. A large hollow point cavity is intended to enable the bullet to expand at lower velocity, and /or to allow expansion to overcome the resistance of the alloy(s) the bullet is made from.

And, all this is designed to happen within a certain velocity RANGE, which has both an upper, and a lower limit.

There are, of course all kinds of variations possible, so I think the best bet is to take the maker's recommendations as the most valid.
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Old February 4, 2023, 09:46 PM   #15
Dano4734
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Maybe I should just stick to my weatherby 06 . I know what a 180 grain Barnes bullet can do on 57 grains of superperformance powder. I just would love to take one at 200 with my 45-70. I took one at 50 with a 405 hardcast but never anything further with my 45-70

Last edited by Dano4734; February 4, 2023 at 10:02 PM.
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Old February 4, 2023, 10:02 PM   #16
Dano4734
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I just don’t want to chase or tear up the meat. Your points are all well taken and I thank you for your kindness
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