SxS receiver build ideas?

[45flaco]

I have an old Ithaca Outside Hammer receiver. No parts other than receiver, although I have a random set of SxS barrels that go to a completely different gun.
Looked up the serial number, it was made in 1894. I really like the look, but don't ever shoot shotguns. Was considering making a set of barrels in an old black powder cartridge, using a monoblock and sleeve.
Have considered 500 BPE, 50-140 sharps, etc. Other than turning it into an old express rifle, any other ideas?
Also, any idea what to do with a random set of SxS 12 gauge barrels that don't fit it?
I have access to a machine shop, so pretty much just need ideas and advice.

[FrankenMauser]

I have two sets of barrels sitting here (16 ga and 20 ga), waiting for a similar project. I don't intend to go to a rifle cartridge.
My intent is brass cased shot shells shooting round balls or conicals.

[45flaco]

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

I have two sets of barrels sitting here (16 ga and 20 ga), waiting for a similar project. I don't intend to go to a rifle cartridge.
My intent is brass cased shot shells shooting round balls or conicals.

Any idea what kind of accuracy the conicals could give out of an old SxS?
I'm not looking for much accuracy, never got the hang of regulating a double rifle anyhow. Pretty much anything around 4 MOA is good enough for me.
I've not messed with shotguns much, other than turning them into rifles. But if the brass shotshells are cheaper than 50-140 and give reasonable hunting accuracy, I might give them a try.

[FrankenMauser]

Based on reports that I've seen from the few people mentally deranged enough to do something similar, and what I understand about ballistics, I would expect a hollow base conical to shoot 2-3" groups at 50 yards and then start opening groups enough to be undesirable beyond 75 yards, or so. Fair expectation, with room to be surprised.

However, I don't see why some tweaking and tuning couldn't produce better groups, if the conical was designed well. There are some modern slugs, as well as old slugs (that classic 'diablo' pellet shape), that will shoot 2" groups as far out as 100 yards from smooth bores.

I believe a handful of the '12 Gauge From Hell' guys were also using smooth bores, while claiming groups around 2-4" at 100 yards.

When/if I get around to it, I'll probably start with round balls, just for simplicity.

The biggest issue, when looking at it experimentally, is that you need to invest in the brass cases, sizing and crimp dies, and, most importantly, a custom mold. (And a reloading press that takes 1-1/4"-12 dies, if you don't have one already.)


For me, the idea is to build a toy as much as a hunting implement. So if I was unlucky and got cursed with 12 MoA, and could only get 6" groups at 50 yards, I would be disappointed that I couldn't trust it for hunting. But I could still have fun with it.

[45flaco]

Originally Posted by FrankenMauser

Based on reports that I've seen from the few people mentally deranged enough to do something similar, and what I understand about ballistics, I would expect a hollow base conical to shoot 2-3" groups at 50 yards and then start opening groups enough to be undesirable beyond 75 yards, or so. Fair expectation, with room to be surprised.

However, I don't see why some tweaking and tuning couldn't produce better groups, if the conical was designed well. There are some modern slugs, as well as old slugs (that classic 'diablo' pellet shape), that will shoot 2" groups as far out as 100 yards from smooth bores.

I believe a handful of the '12 Gauge From Hell' guys were also using smooth bores, while claiming groups around 2-4" at 100 yards.

When/if I get around to it, I'll probably start with round balls, just for simplicity.

The biggest issue, when looking at it experimentally, is that you need to invest in the brass cases, sizing and crimp dies, and, most importantly, a custom mold. (And a reloading press that takes 1-1/4"-12 dies, if you don't have one already.)


For me, the idea is to build a toy as much as a hunting implement. So if I was unlucky and got cursed with 12 MoA, and could only get 6" groups at 50 yards, I would be disappointed that I couldn't trust it for hunting. But I could still have fun with it.

For me, this would definitely just fall into the toy category, but I like reasonably accurate toys. If nothing else, I might try to use the set of barrels I already have, and adapt them to the receiver with a new block. A whole lot of effort to make a 50 dollar gun, but might be a learning experience.
I've seen the 12 gauge from hell, and don't feel like trying that. But the accuracy might be worth a look.
I can make any dies necessary, but don't feel like making/buying the press and brass. Maybe I'll try a baby version of the APFSDS in a plastic shell, just for giggles.

[PocketCamera]

double rifle in .577 snider

[FITASC]

IF the action is strong enough - and heat treatment then what it is today; have the barrels for the shotgun fitted to the receiver and then have Briley fit some subgauge full length tubes inside and turn into a nice 28 gauge; OR have it tested for low pressure 12 gauge from the likes of RST. If the barrels are as old as the gun, most likely 2-1/2", not the current 2-3/4". Those barrels will require fitting and that takes some skill.

[45flaco]

Originally Posted by FITASC

IF the action is strong enough - and heat treatment then what it is today; have the barrels for the shotgun fitted to the receiver and then have Briley fit some subgauge full length tubes inside and turn into a nice 28 gauge; OR have it tested for low pressure 12 gauge from the likes of RST. If the barrels are as old as the gun, most likely 2-1/2", not the current 2-3/4". Those barrels will require fitting and that takes some skill.

The set of barrels I have is for a different gun, but similar era. Only thing I plan to salvage are the actual barrels and the top rib. The "block" on those barrels is completely the wrong style for my receiver, so I'll have to make a new one. Being from 1894, I'm assuming the receiver is good for black powder pressures only.

[FITASC]

Being from 1894, I'm assuming the receiver is good for black powder pressures only.

Most likely true; that said, I would contact the folks at RST about their Vintager line. If it can only take the pressures from BP shotgun loads, how would it handle the higher pressures of express rifle loads?

[45flaco]

Originally Posted by FITASC

Most likely true; that said, I would contact the folks at RST about their Vintager line. If it can only take the pressures from BP shotgun loads, how would it handle the higher pressures of express rifle loads?

Should handle black powder 50-140 just fine. I've built 2 sleeved monoblock 45-70s on these old Ithaca hammer SxS's. Using trapdoor 45-70 data was more than safe enough, so old 50-140 and real black powder will be even safer. Main reason I want a 50 cal cartridge is I found three barrel blanks for about the price of a six pack of beer. Two 0.510 bore diameter, and one 0.505". Not looking to put any money into it, otherwise I'd probably buy whatever RST has.
But my main goal building a gun is to learn something, not to have someone else do it for me. I don't actually need a new double rifle in an obsolete caliber, just feel like it would be fun to build when I don't have any work.

[50 shooter]

Depending on your skill level, you can try what my dad did.

He took the receiver of two open hammer shotguns and turned them into a four barreled shotgun.

You'll need to machine the top of one and the bottom of the other flat so they can be welded together. Then stack them on top of each other and align the barrels and receivers. Clamp them in place and tack weld them together.

After you tack them, you'll need to inspect everything for perfect alignment. If its off, take it apart and start over. You'll also need filler material to fill in between the barrels once you stack them and weld everything up.

The last part is the exposed hammers. You need to attach the bottom set and then align the top ones over the bottom to cut and weld together. This needs to be done correctly so that when both triggers are pulled and both hammers fall, all four of the firing pins are hit at the same time.

Let me tell you that when you pull both triggers at the same time, you better be holding on! I never laughed so hard in my life at the craziness of one firearm. That and the fact that my dad made it!