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October 7, 2012, 07:45 PM | #1 |
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W 231 vs W 296 for .30 M1 Carbine
Im reloading .45 ACP with 231 and was loading 30 Carbine with 296 before it ran out. Im now wondering about how well 231 does in 30 Carbine.
Before any of you old timers get worked up, I dont intend on just using these powders interchangeably. Im well aware that 296 is too slow for 45 ACP. W231 for a plinking 30 CAR load? |
October 7, 2012, 07:59 PM | #2 |
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It might work but too fast. Get some 2400.
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October 7, 2012, 08:22 PM | #3 |
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Kind of sounds like you don't know what on Earth you are doing.
You would be much safer putting piles of W296 in a .45 Auto case, as much as you can and stuffing a bullet on it than you would be putting any W231 in a .30 Carbine case. But then again, maybe you've got it all figured out already. I'd help, but I don't care to get all worked up over it. Wear a helmet and go shooting on a range with no innocent people nearby.
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October 7, 2012, 08:30 PM | #4 |
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Ervin,
Ignore the insults. No question is a bad one. 231 is too fast for a carbine load although you could probably get a bullet to exit the barrel without blowing up the gun with a small amount of it in a case. I use 296 and 2400 in my 30 carbine loads. Save the 231 for your 45 or your 38's and others. |
October 7, 2012, 08:37 PM | #5 |
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4227 is also a good carbine powder.
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October 7, 2012, 08:51 PM | #6 |
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"Kind of sounds like you don't know what on Earth you are doing."
Amazing....I love this forum for it's civility. Dont ruin it. I wore a kevlar overseas for a year without rest, I came back expecting just a little bit more respect. |
October 7, 2012, 09:45 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
Fast burning powders in applications where slow burners are called for is dangerous. Using slow burners in fast applications simply doesn't work well, but is only "dangerous" with regards to stuck/lodged bullets. W231 is a very popular, fast burning target powder. It's great for .45, and likely why you are using it. For alternatives in .30 Carbine, especially in a semi-auto gas-op rifle (I specify because I load .30 Carb for a revolver myself), other viable options: H110 (same powder as your W296 with a different label on it) IMR-4227 AA#9 AA#7 Lil'Gun ...others, I'm sure. I have worked up some Blue Dot loads in a Ruger Blackhawk but wasn't happy with them and I'm not sure they'd produce a proper gas volume to run a carbine.
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
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October 7, 2012, 09:46 PM | #8 |
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Oops, as hodaka said in his first post, Alliant 2400. No proper reason why I left that out -- 97% of all the .30 Carbine I've loaded and fired has been with Alliant 2400.
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
October 7, 2012, 09:56 PM | #9 |
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As far as I know, 231 has NO application in a carbine. None.
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October 7, 2012, 10:02 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
This is from 1 vet "8 years, U.S. Army" to another.
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October 7, 2012, 10:04 PM | #11 |
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I knew a guy who worked over and re-worked over an M1 Carbine to chamber it in .45 Win Mag. He managed to get his idea mentioned in a blurb in Jeff Cooper's column on the back page of Guns & Ammo magazine.
You can load .45 Win Mag with W231. That's as close as I can come up with for using W231 in a Carbine. Of course... there is the Marlin Camp Carbine...
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
October 8, 2012, 10:50 AM | #12 |
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"Ervin
W 231 vs W 296 for .30 M1 Carbine Im reloading .45 ACP with 231 and was loading 30 Carbine with 296 before it ran out. Im now wondering about how well 231 does in 30 Carbine. Before any of you old timers get worked up, I dont intend on just using these powders interchangeably. Im well aware that 296 is too slow for 45 ACP. W231 for a plinking 30 CAR load? " I'm one of those weirdos that thinks that just about any powder can be used in any casing. But just because a load could be worked out, why? First off, this hypothetical load would be 'ifiy' at best in operating a gas operated M1 Carbine. Mite work, sort of, as a single shot. I know of a fella that says he is working on sub-sonic loads of another 30 cal rifle with 231/HP38 and I have no question that it can be done. But we come back to the question of why? I know of a loading that runs 'Unique' powder (6 to 6.5gr) under a 115gr lead bullet and it reportedly functions the action. For 'pinking', you will want the load to be safe and functional and cheap. I feel that these goals can be achieved with more conventional powders and a lot simpler. Look into cast lead loads. I'm not about to slam you. To the opposite, if this is an exercise in experimentation and all safety matters are full included, go for it. But, please make sure all of your ducks are collected and lined up before you do anything that could hurt you or others. Be safe, OSOK |
October 8, 2012, 11:09 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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Attention Brass rats and other reloaders: I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss. |
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October 8, 2012, 11:50 AM | #14 |
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I don't have a recommendation for loads in a M1 but if your shooting a .30 carbine blackhawk I've had great results with Unique.
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October 8, 2012, 12:07 PM | #15 |
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I tried loading up some cast slugs for my carbine. I ran about 100 through it and the accuracy was not good. Paper plates at 50 yards were dead but that was about as good as it got. Back to Hornady 110's.
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October 8, 2012, 12:38 PM | #16 |
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"concerned with plugging up the gas port with bits of lead"
I have the same thoughts but the lead shooters don't seem to have problems. I have shot my share of lead in bolts and single shot rifles. Never built up the nerve to try lead in a Garand or M1A or AR/M4. But others do it. The sub-sonic boys are working hard with lead in the 300 AAC Blackout and aren't being bothered with gas block or tube problems (at least none are reporting any). They say it is like hitting with a brick Enjoy, OSOK |
October 8, 2012, 05:54 PM | #17 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hope this helps jcwit
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October 8, 2012, 06:30 PM | #18 |
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W231 has an application in the 30 carbine IF AND ONLY IF you are loading it in a revolver.
It is too fast and does not produce adequate gas volume and pressure at the gas port for cycling a M1 30 Carb. |
October 8, 2012, 09:53 PM | #19 |
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Quickload says 7.0g of 231 w/ a sierra 110g fmj has 41k pressure (46k sammi max) 1626fps for 646 fpe.
just saying |
October 9, 2012, 04:00 PM | #20 |
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I discovered that the same charge weight of 4227 works for both .30 Carbine and .44-40, if that helps.
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February 24, 2013, 03:04 PM | #21 |
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Did yo ever try 231 in the carbine?
I have made Power Pistol cycle my M1 carbine using a CAST load, at 7 grains, but terrible accuracy. |
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