5.56/.223 for hunting?

[Aguila Blanca]

Pardon me for butting in here. I'm mostly a handgun shooter and that's the part of the forum where I typically hang out. But in the aftermath of Orlando I'm trying to gather facts and information so I can have it readily available to rebut/refute erroneous and false claims from the anti-gun side. I'm sure most of you have heard it before:

"AR-15's are only made for killing people. They are military weapons."

In my state, 5.56x45/.223 is not allowed for hunting deer. The reason, from what I've been told, is that it's not large or powerful enough to ensure quick, humane kills. So if it's not deadly enough to hunt deer, what makes it so deadly when aimed at humans?

My question is: What states allow the use of .223 for hunting deer, and what states do NOT allow it? For states where it's not allowed, if you know the reason I'd like that, as well.

Thank you.

[sdrnavy91]

Texas allows hunting deer with .223 or .556... A properly placed shot will kill anything !..... A friend of mine only hunts with a .223, he neck shoots them.

[Hunter Customs]

Deer can be hunted in Missouri with 5.56/223, no FMJ ammo though.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter

[603Country]

I've killed deer in Texas with a 223. Not my top choice of Calibers for that, but it will do with the right bullet and good shot placement. My cousin's kid killed a truckload of deer in Louisiana in his younger days with a single shot 223, and I hear he never had to use more than the one shot.

[camper4lyfe]

NNY allows it. The only requirement for rifle is that it must be center fire. There is no caliber minimum.

[Dranrab]

Many states do allow it, and it is quite effective.

[mete]

Yes with a proper bullet and placement it will work .But there are better choices .
For the AR-15 there have been a number of wildcat cartridges developed ranging up to 458 SOCOM which uses a a load equaling a factory load for the 45-70. 300 gr at 1850 .I use that load with my 45-70 and that IS a potent load for deer and larger animals!
The non-shooting public , of course , sees the AR-15 as an evil gun .

[Aguila Blanca]

Gents, I understand I've ventured into the Hunting discussion area, but please meet me halfway and read the question.

I'm trying to build up background information to counter anti-gun arguments. I know you can take deer with a .223. I know you can take deer with .22 WMR and .22 LR. That's not the point. I know that some states do NOT allow .223 for hunting deer. I am trying to determine which states do, and which states do not. This has nothing to do with whether the round is adequate, marginal, or inadequate. I need to know where it's legal, and where it's not.

[taylorce1]

This has been discussed several times, just use the search feature. More states allow the .223 than not, here is a list for you that I've posted before. However, I think Wyoming now allows the .223 for some big game.

Originally Posted by taylorce1

Alabama- centerfire
Alaska- centerfire
Alberta- .23 and up centerfire
Arizona- centerfire
Arkansas- .22 and up centerfire
California- centerfire
Colorado- .24 and up, 70grn or larger bullet/ minimum of 1000ft/lbs at 100 yards
Connecticut- .243 and up if legal in your area
Delaware- shotgun/muzzle loader
Florida- centerfire
Georgia- .22 and up centerfire
Hawaii- Any rifle with at least 1200 ft/lbs of ME. This would start at around .223 I think
Idaho- Centerfire (cannot weigh more than 16 lbs?)
Illinois- Shotgun/ML/Pistol only
Indiana- Rifles with pistol calibers/shotgun/ML/Pistols
Iowa- .24 or larger centerfire only for antlerless season in part of the state
Kansas- .23 or larger centerfire (actually says larger than .23 so maybe .24 is the mininum).
kentucky- centerfire
Louisiana- .22 and up centerfire
Maine- .22 magnum rimfire and up!
Manitoba- Centerfire, but it says .23 and below not recommended. Does not say illegal though.
Maryland- ME of at least 1200 ft/lbs
Mass- Shotgun/ML
Michigan- centerfire in certain areas
Minnesota- .24 and up centerfire
Mississippi- No restrictions that I could find
Missouri- centerfire
Montana- No restrictions
Nebraska- Rifles with 900 ft/lbs or more at 100 yards
Nevada- .22 centerfire and up
New Hampshire- centerfire
New Jersey- shotgun only
New Mexico- centerfire
New York- centerfire
North Carolina- No restrictions
North Dakota- .22-.49 centerfire
Nova Scotia- .23 and up
Ohio- Shotgun/ML
Oklahoma- centerfire with 55 grn or heavier bullet
Ontario- centerfire
Oregon- .22 centerfire and up
Pennsylvania- centerfire
Quebec- 6mm/.243 and up
Rhode Island- shotgun/ML
Saskatchewan- .24 and up
South Carolina- centerfire
South Dakota- rifles with 1,000 ft/lbs or more ME
Tennessee- centerfire
Texas- centerfire
Utah- centerfire
vermont- No restriction
Virginia- .23 centerfire and up
Washington- .24 centerfire and up
West Virginia- .25 rimfire and up and all centerfire
Wisconsin- .22 centerfire and up
Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

[Aguila Blanca]

Exactly what I was looking for. many thanks.

[Mozella]

Look HERE for an early AR-15 advertisement where it is touted as an inexpensive ($189), lightweight hunting rifle.

I'm sure most guns have been used during war time some place in the world by what you might call "irregular combatants", including the AR-15, but I"m not aware of any military force which has ever used the AR-15 as a weapon.

It LOOKS kinda' like a weapon of war, but that does NOT make an assault weapon. You can go to New Orleans or Key West and see men that LOOK kinda' like women and in some cases EXACTLY like beautiful women ........... don't be fooled.

[Wyosmith]

Here is a cut and paste of Wyoming's new regulations for 22 Center Fires.

For deer, antelope, mountain lion, and gray wolf, the major change is the addition of .22 centerfire cartridges as legal ammunition. For the taking of deer, antelope, mountain lions, and gray wolves in areas where they are designated as trophy game, hunters can use any centerfire firearm of at least .22 caliber, using a cartridge at least two inches long and firing a bullet of at least 60 grains.

[Aguila Blanca]

So that makes it 14 states that do NOT allow .223 for hunting deer, and 36 states that do.

Obviously, my purpose in compiling this statistic is to refute the argument that the AR-15 round is so deadly that normal human beings shouldn't be allowed to possess anything that can shoot it. If it's so unimaginably deadly, why is it that fourteen states think it's too small to hunt animals as light as deer?

[camper4lyfe]

The people that claim "it's so deadly" are obviously ignorant of the topic. You'd be better comparing the cartridge to a standard .300 or .30-06.

[Gunplummer]

Don't even bother to argue with people like that. They have a mindset that will not change. Look at the arguing that goes on in this forum and outdoors magazines. It is a waste of time.

[kraigwy]

Wyoming- .23 centerfire and up

Wyoming now allows 223 cal bullet, =/> 60 grs. for hunting of deer/antelope animals.

Elk and such still fall in the > 23 cal bullets.

[Mobuck]

I've killed deer with a .223, BUT IT'S NOT A DEER CARTRIDGE.
I'm a realist and will argue my point from now on. What CAN be done may not be ethical or practical.

[TimSr]

I know that some states do NOT allow .223 for hunting deer. I am trying to determine which states do, and which states do not. This has nothing to do with whether the round is adequate, marginal, or inadequate. I need to know where it's legal, and where it's not.

The reason some states allow it, and some do not has everything to do with whether it has been deemed "adequate". Setting aside the shotgun/muzzleloader/pistol states, it's simply a matter of some states have more trust in hunters to use good judgment, as opposed to other states that want to attempt to curb poor judgment with hunting laws. Some states have decided that the 223 is inadequate for deer. The states that permit it, have not necessarily deemed it adequate, but simply leave that choice up to the hunter. Yu also have to consider that in some states, deer are 80 lbs, and in other states they often grow well beyond 200lbs.

I understand the argument you are trying to make, and a picture is worth a thousand words, especially to those who judge guns based on their appearance. Take a picture of the two most popular "assault weapon" cartridges .223 and 7.62x39 next to the two most popular deer cartridges, a 30-06 and 30-30. Then ask your gun ignorant friends to pick out the "high power assault weapons" cartridges.

Another interesting picture is the "progression" of our choice of military cartridge starting with 45-70 as it devolves into the current .223.

[22-rimfire]

I view it as an excellent varmint cartridge. I would only use it for deer hunting if that is all I have and I personally would not carry an AR in the woods deer hunting (unless that is all I had). That however does not apply to varmint hunting. I just want to go more traditional in rifle design deer hunting. That is me, and not saying that would or should apply to everyone.

My deer rifle recommendations start at .243 win and prefer something near to a 30 caliber for deer. My choice is 270 win.

[gunrunner1]

I have killed deer with the .223 (AR15), .243 (Ruger American), .308 (M1A, 742), .308 Marlin Express (Marlin MXLR), .30-06 (1903A3). I've killed wild pigs with the .223, .308 and the .357 mag (Marlin 1894). The ones I killed with the .223 were just as dead as the ones I shot with the other calibers, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest to be seen carrying an AR15 while hunting.

[603Country]

Well, gunrunner has a point, in that the deer can be killed with the 223. But I have found, over the decades, that (given equally good shot placement) they typically die a bit faster when shot with larger Calibers. That means they can't make it to their sanctuary area, like huge briar patches. And that is a good thing.

And that is why, when hunting pigs, I went from 100 gr bullets in my 260 to 120 gr bullets. The 120's definitely drop them faster. So...it's gonna take a lot of convincing to make me believe that a 55 gr 223 bullet will work as well. Over the years I have shot a number of deer with my 220 Swift and the 55 gr bullet, but I lost an unacceptable percentage of deer, so I quit using it on deer.

Being a reloader, if I just had to shoot deer with my 223, I'd use either the 60 gr Partition, the 65 gr Sierra GK, or the Nosler 64 gr BSB. I wouldn't go hungry but I'd probably be back in the briar patch tracking deer from time to time.

[doofus47]

As this list pointed out, in colorado we need to use calibers .24 and up to chase big game.

My AR is 7.62x39 when I chase deer in dark timber.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

If it's so unimaginably deadly, why is it that fourteen states think it's too small to hunt animals as light as deer?

The flaw I see in your logic is the assumption that there is some logic behind the decision to make the .223/5.56 legal or illegal in each individual state.

Maybe in some cases there's logic, but in most cases these decisions are made by some mixture of elected and unelected bureaucrats, many of whom have never hunted anything nor even handled a gun of any kind.

Some of these laws probably originated before there WAS such a thing as a .223/5.56, maybe before there was ANY .22 centerfire.

[Toney]

You can hunt here in ok with a 223. I prefer something a lot bigger though, it's kind of Handy though for the grandkids

[Boogershooter]

I would think the more states it is legal to use as a hunting cartridge the harder it would be to ever ban them. Just because you can drive a nail with your $5000 TV doesn't mean it should be done. The problem isn't the cartridge, it's the fact that many of us always try to push the limits. My son has killed a couple of deer with his 223 but his shots are very short. I make his use heavy soft bullets also.