Stag Model 2 vs. M&P Sport

Blade37db · October 25, 2011, 06:35 PM

I've never been into ARs....not crazy about the round, the DI system and thought they were too front heavy. Only "rifles" I own are M1 Carbines (2). Love the look, balance & weight (yeah, I know it's not really a "rifle" round). Still, something tells me that I should have an AR in my collection. Recently, I held 2 that felt pretty light: a Stag Model 2 and a M&P Sport. I want my rifle to have iron sights (don't really care about a rail). I know the twist rates are different (1:9 vs 1:8), chrome vs. Melonite lined barrel, and the M&P is missing a dust cover and forward assist. Price was $869 for the Stag and $599 for the M&P. Opinions? Any other important features that differntiate? Any others that might be "better" in the price range between the 2?
Thanks.

Marquezj16 · October 25, 2011, 07:12 PM

I can only speak for the Sport. You will not need the forward assist or dust cover. The handguard does not have a heat shield but it's a quick and cheap replacement. It comes with iron sights. Tigger is like any stock AR15, nothing special but not bad. The one I own is very accurate and has zero malfunctions.

What will you use it for?

Blade37db · October 25, 2011, 07:22 PM

Thanks. Just for range use, SHTF, etc.

Marquezj16 · October 25, 2011, 07:28 PM

The Sport is a great starter AR15. Plus it's a S&W. Most owners here would recommend one.

I have read good things about the Stag ARs as well so I don't think you would go wrong with either one.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know what you end up buying.

Safe Shooting.

spleify · October 25, 2011, 08:44 PM

Both weapons will do you good.

If you are going to go with the S&W(I have two of them) then I would upgrade a little and get a model that has a flash suppressor, dust cover and forward assist.

Good luck and have fun, be safe

HKFan9 · October 25, 2011, 09:04 PM

Stag definitely.

Chrome lined, has the features missing from the Sportline. Plus comes with a life time warranty as well.

Stag is CMT's in house brand name... they make parts for just about 75% of the AR industry... and many many companies use their high quality receivers and products. Most notably Noveske uses CMT receivers for example.

I had a Stag that I beat the snot out of and it kept kicking. I have since upgraded to a BMC upper onto a CMT lower.

I have nothing against the sport line.. but if the Stag is in your price range... you should definitely get that over the sportline.

Lloyd Smale · October 26, 2011, 05:29 AM

Ive never owned a smith other then my ar22 but my buddy has a couple and theyve been good guns. I do have a stag and its my favorite ar. Nice thing about stags too is that they have a no questions lifetime warantee. thats why i put my bump fire stock on it. When i shoot out the barrel they will replace it for free.

Logs · October 26, 2011, 05:35 AM

At the end of the day I don't think you can shoot the difference between them. They will both go bang when you pull the trigger. Get the one that looks good for you. Both are quality guns. I own several AR's Double Star, Stag, Colt and Spike's and they all shoot about the same. My only suggestion is go with Chrome bore, it is easier to clean and will function with the cheap dirty ammo a little better but that is my opinion.

quepasakimosabe · October 26, 2011, 05:52 AM

I would go with the Stag or just build your own that way you can really get what you want out of it. The M&P just rub me the wrong way for some reason. Maybe its S&W's issues as of late and the whole I bolt nightmare, i just have a hard time suggesting that name lately.

Marquezj16 · October 26, 2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Maybe its S&W's issues as of late and the whole I bolt nightmare, i just have a hard time suggesting that name lately.

Does this refer to any of the M&P 15 line? I'd like to know if there are some problems that other's had with their S&W AR15s so I can prepare or rectify mine if there is a problem.

Thanks.

Bartholomew Roberts · October 26, 2011, 12:27 PM

In terms of value, I don't think you can find a better AR cheaper than the S&W Sport. $600 for those features is tough to beat and that is a very nice barrel on a budget-marketed gun.

"Is the Stag 2 worth $269 more?" is a tougher question.

Quote:

I want my rifle to have iron sights (don't really care about a rail).

Even if you never want to use anything but iron sights, the flattop models are a lot more flexible. They make detachable iron sights for the AR in just about every configuration under the sun. You can get M14 National Match sights, HK drum sights, safari-style sights, you name it and someone probably makes it for a flattop AR. Just something to think about.

wingman · October 26, 2011, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Even if you never want to use anything but iron sights, the flattop models are a lot more flexible. They make detachable iron sights for the AR in just about every configuration under the sun.

I agree, my reason for purchasing a Stag Model 3,easy to add flip up sights,scope, eotech,etc. Plus IMO the flat tops look better.

chris in va · October 26, 2011, 03:05 PM

No problems at all with my Sport, 2000 reloads so far. Not sure why people refer to this as a 'starter AR', couldn't ask for anything more than it offers.

I've yet to need the dust cover, forward assist (yeah that's it...JAM that bad round in there!), M203 cut on the barrel and removable trigger guard.

I will agree though about the handguard, needs a vert grip or better shielding. Not something that keeps me up at night though.

Mine came with the Leapers rear sight. I understand the new ones have a folder of some sort.

BlackJackID · October 26, 2011, 05:02 PM

I prefer having a dust cover and forward assist...not that either get used often if at all....But simply for the aesthetics..they are an integral part of what draws me to the AR, as does the carry handle..again, rather pointless, but..I love its looks..maybe its because that what I saw growing up, before the flat tops were the in thing.

Either one is Liable to be a great rifle, so, get what you like, if those extra things arent what makes the rifle "do it" for you..don't get them.

Blade37db · October 26, 2011, 06:56 PM

"Is the Stag 2 worth $269 more?" is a tougher question.

That's a great question. Is it?

ripnbst · October 26, 2011, 08:23 PM

If you can afford the price tag on the Stag I would look at Spike's Tactical. Also a lifetime warranty and they make awesome products. I'd get this

It has more features, comes with the sights already, Spike's has built an awesome reputation and their weapons can take a beating. Again, lifetime warranty. I don't know if either of your choices are mid-length gas systems, I don't believe that they are but the Mid-Lengths are generally softer shooting and more reliable. With mid-length gas systems available I see no reason anyone should but a carbine length gun unless you are going for as die-hard a military knock off as possible or plan to use a very short barrel.

Marquezj16 · October 26, 2011, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Not sure why people refer to this as a 'starter AR', couldn't ask for anything more than it offers.

Chris - you know that I love my Sport as much as you do yours because we almost always post on the same threads about it. The reason why I called it a starter AR is because it is the basic AR. It has everything you need to get started with ARs without all the added accesories. But since it is the basic AR, if an owner decides to change parts or add accesories and customize it then they can. In a way, you can upgrade parts.

Like mine for example.
Before

After

HKFan9 · October 26, 2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

No problems at all with my Sport, 2000 reloads so far. Not sure why people refer to this as a 'starter AR', couldn't ask for anything more than it offers.

Well this what really should be the question. Chris I am not ragging on you or the Sportline... I have sold a bunch of them and recommended them to certain people.

It really comes down to what your personal needs are for the rifle, are you a causal weekend warrior that wants to enjoy the AR platform and plink around with friends and family? Or are you looking to have a nice SD/HD rifle, and plan on taking some carbine courses, or perhaps carbine competitions and 3gunning?

Those are just two examples of 1000's. You have to narrow it down by what your going to do with it, how often or how little you will fire it, and with mostly what type of ammo.

I get a discount on ammo... but somedays I still say screw it and fire off some cheap dirty steel cased ammo. Personally I want to know my AR will be able to eat it up ok. I often have range sessions that can reach 1k-2k rounds with my AR. I also use mine as a primary HD gun because I live in the country where the police response times are +/- 30 minutes.

I will say the Sportline is a solid entry AR, that will cover about 90% of the people looking for an AR. If you want to get into it hot and heavy, I would look at spending a little extra. Stag is a great entry level AR... but Colt, BCM, Spikes are probably better routes. With a little know how, and some youtube videos, you can grab a BCM upper, a stripped lower or your choice, and a lower parts kit and have a GREAT AR for about the price you would spend on the Stag.

ripnbst · October 26, 2011, 11:58 PM

The Mid-Length Spikes Tactical model I mentioned and linked above is currently $10 cheaper than the Stag. Why on earth would he buy the Stag even if he didn't need the added functionality? He gets it anyway and for $10 less. Seems like a no brainer to me.

HKFan9 · October 27, 2011, 12:02 AM

I think your referring to the Stag's MSRP, they sell for cheaper.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411545226

Logs · October 28, 2011, 06:51 AM

You could always build a "Plum Crazy AR"

Complete Lower for $120, shown with my Chiappa .22 upper.

You can find complete 223 uppers for $400-$500

Marquezj16 · October 28, 2011, 11:17 AM

@quepasakimosabe -so....I'm waiting for those issues you were talking about...

Quote:

Maybe its S&W's issues as of late and the whole I bolt nightmare, i just have a hard time suggesting that name lately.

Quote:

Does this refer to any of the M&P 15 line? I'd like to know if there are some problems that other's had with their S&W AR15s.

HKFan9 · October 28, 2011, 03:24 PM

He is probably referring to when SW first came out with their M&P line of rifles. They outsourced most everything on them and they weren't running real well or matting up well at all.

They have since moved to in house production and solved a lot of the issues, and make a damn nice entry level AR now.

Marquezj16 · October 28, 2011, 04:31 PM

Thanks HKFan9. I really was thinking there might bre something wrong with them like a recall or something.

October 25, 2011, 06:35 PM	#1
Blade37db Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 282	Stag Model 2 vs. M&P Sport I've never been into ARs....not crazy about the round, the DI system and thought they were too front heavy. Only "rifles" I own are M1 Carbines (2). Love the look, balance & weight (yeah, I know it's not really a "rifle" round). Still, something tells me that I should have an AR in my collection. Recently, I held 2 that felt pretty light: a Stag Model 2 and a M&P Sport. I want my rifle to have iron sights (don't really care about a rail). I know the twist rates are different (1:9 vs 1:8), chrome vs. Melonite lined barrel, and the M&P is missing a dust cover and forward assist. Price was $869 for the Stag and $599 for the M&P. Opinions? Any other important features that differntiate? Any others that might be "better" in the price range between the 2? Thanks.

October 25, 2011, 08:44 PM	#5
spleify Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 151	Both weapons will do you good. If you are going to go with the S&W(I have two of them) then I would upgrade a little and get a model that has a flash suppressor, dust cover and forward assist. Good luck and have fun, be safe __________________ ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ NRA Member Survival Paracord Wraps & Bracelets Like us on Facebook

October 26, 2011, 05:52 AM	#9
quepasakimosabe Member Join Date: October 10, 2011 Location: Camp Lejeune, NC Posts: 79	I would go with the Stag or just build your own that way you can really get what you want out of it. The M&P just rub me the wrong way for some reason. Maybe its S&W's issues as of late and the whole I bolt nightmare, i just have a hard time suggesting that name lately. __________________ To sum it up: Somewhere there is a TRUE BELIEVER training, he will not stop in his mission, he knows only the cause. What have you done today? For your brothers at arms, friends, family, your country, yourself?

October 25, 2011, 07:12 PM	#2
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	I can only speak for the Sport. You will not need the forward assist or dust cover. The handguard does not have a heat shield but it's a quick and cheap replacement. It comes with iron sights. Tigger is like any stock AR15, nothing special but not bad. The one I own is very accurate and has zero malfunctions. What will you use it for?

October 25, 2011, 07:22 PM	#3
Blade37db Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 282	Thanks. Just for range use, SHTF, etc.

October 25, 2011, 07:28 PM	#4
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	The Sport is a great starter AR15. Plus it's a S&W. Most owners here would recommend one. I have read good things about the Stag ARs as well so I don't think you would go wrong with either one. Good luck with your purchase and let us know what you end up buying. Safe Shooting.

October 25, 2011, 09:04 PM	#6
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	Stag definitely. Chrome lined, has the features missing from the Sportline. Plus comes with a life time warranty as well. Stag is CMT's in house brand name... they make parts for just about 75% of the AR industry... and many many companies use their high quality receivers and products. Most notably Noveske uses CMT receivers for example. I had a Stag that I beat the snot out of and it kept kicking. I have since upgraded to a BMC upper onto a CMT lower. I have nothing against the sport line.. but if the Stag is in your price range... you should definitely get that over the sportline.

October 26, 2011, 05:29 AM	#7
Lloyd Smale Junior member Join Date: February 11, 2005 Posts: 822	Ive never owned a smith other then my ar22 but my buddy has a couple and theyve been good guns. I do have a stag and its my favorite ar. Nice thing about stags too is that they have a no questions lifetime warantee. thats why i put my bump fire stock on it. When i shoot out the barrel they will replace it for free.

October 26, 2011, 05:35 AM	#8
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	At the end of the day I don't think you can shoot the difference between them. They will both go bang when you pull the trigger. Get the one that looks good for you. Both are quality guns. I own several AR's Double Star, Stag, Colt and Spike's and they all shoot about the same. My only suggestion is go with Chrome bore, it is easier to clean and will function with the cheap dirty ammo a little better but that is my opinion.

October 26, 2011, 03:05 PM	#13
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	No problems at all with my Sport, 2000 reloads so far. Not sure why people refer to this as a 'starter AR', couldn't ask for anything more than it offers. I've yet to need the dust cover, forward assist (yeah that's it...JAM that bad round in there!), M203 cut on the barrel and removable trigger guard. I will agree though about the handguard, needs a vert grip or better shielding. Not something that keeps me up at night though. Mine came with the Leapers rear sight. I understand the new ones have a folder of some sort.

October 26, 2011, 05:02 PM	#14
BlackJackID Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2011 Posts: 159	I prefer having a dust cover and forward assist...not that either get used often if at all....But simply for the aesthetics..they are an integral part of what draws me to the AR, as does the carry handle..again, rather pointless, but..I love its looks..maybe its because that what I saw growing up, before the flat tops were the in thing. Either one is Liable to be a great rifle, so, get what you like, if those extra things arent what makes the rifle "do it" for you..don't get them.

October 26, 2011, 06:56 PM	#15
Blade37db Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2005 Posts: 282	"Is the Stag 2 worth $269 more?" is a tougher question. That's a great question. Is it?

October 26, 2011, 08:23 PM	#16
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	If you can afford the price tag on the Stag I would look at Spike's Tactical. Also a lifetime warranty and they make awesome products. I'd get this It has more features, comes with the sights already, Spike's has built an awesome reputation and their weapons can take a beating. Again, lifetime warranty. I don't know if either of your choices are mid-length gas systems, I don't believe that they are but the Mid-Lengths are generally softer shooting and more reliable. With mid-length gas systems available I see no reason anyone should but a carbine length gun unless you are going for as die-hard a military knock off as possible or plan to use a very short barrel.

October 26, 2011, 11:58 PM	#19
ripnbst Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Spring, TX Posts: 1,552	The Mid-Length Spikes Tactical model I mentioned and linked above is currently $10 cheaper than the Stag. Why on earth would he buy the Stag even if he didn't need the added functionality? He gets it anyway and for $10 less. Seems like a no brainer to me.

October 27, 2011, 12:02 AM	#20
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	I think your referring to the Stag's MSRP, they sell for cheaper. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411545226

October 28, 2011, 06:51 AM	#21
Logs Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 1999 Location: BLUEGRASS STATE KY USA Posts: 1,780	You could always build a "Plum Crazy AR" Complete Lower for $120, shown with my Chiappa .22 upper. You can find complete 223 uppers for $400-$500

October 28, 2011, 03:24 PM	#23
HKFan9 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2008 Posts: 3,057	He is probably referring to when SW first came out with their M&P line of rifles. They outsourced most everything on them and they weren't running real well or matting up well at all. They have since moved to in house production and solved a lot of the issues, and make a damn nice entry level AR now.

October 28, 2011, 04:31 PM	#24
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	Thanks HKFan9. I really was thinking there might bre something wrong with them like a recall or something.