South Korean Sale of M-1's and Carbines

[Adirondack]

Wow, Chris_B yes I can see why you wouldn't want to go there if that's the case. I've had pretty good experiences on their forum but I'm usually looking for answers to specific questions and there has always been someone that could answer them for me. I do think most of the members for the CMP aren't like that though, you just probably ran into the wrong group unfortunately.

I do find these firearms very interesting and I think they represent what America is capable of when everyone is working together towards a common goal. Take the M1 Carbines and the all the manufacturers involved in building them: Winchester, GM, IBM, National Postal Meter, Rockola, Quality Hardware etc. It's amazing that these manufacturers could so quickly adapt their operations to produce weapons. Also, the history of these weapons is fascinating to me as well. Take those Bavarian marked M1 Carbines, they went into service being used to fight the Germans then later where given over to the Germans for them to police their country after the war; it's an important part our countries' history in that it shows a cautious re-building of trust.

[SfcMac]

Chris B I myself understand where you are coming from since I have had my share of bad experiences over there at CMP. The corporation itself is ok and a good place to buy an M1. Orest Michaels is an old retired Msg who spent most of his career around that rifle.As for the Forum We Nam vets have a term "shake and bake" In the early years of Vietnam this was a name given to those who never went to Nam That Chris is exactly what their forum is. I would say well over half of them never carried a rifle in defense of this country They have an M1 because it's the Patriotic thing to do. "BULLY" for them. My contempt for them is well known, and I am not well thought of over there Again I say BULLY!!! So What. Come here to this forum. Talk M1` to your hearts content There are some good people who will answer all of your questions for you. My Father once said to me " Paul walk away from a low life.Standing there arguing with him is useless You will only bring yourself down to his level Walk away with the knowledge that you are the better person" Chit on CMP forums Stay here God Bless

[stickhauler]

These stories about the CMP forums, especially this story:

I don't go to the CMP forums any more; I was very offended by a group of members there who believe that the fact their rifles may have been used to kill gives them the right to feel certain ways about things and about people; they are proud of the deaths their rifles may have been part of, as if they wanted to start carving notches and counting headstones and join in the pride of their country by actually being happy about the deaths, except of course they didn't go and do the things the rifles did, didn't serve and didn't defend the US in WWII or Korea. I got called un-American for posting that the events encountered and feelings of the man who may have carried my rifle were not things I felt I could lay claim to

Makes me wonder when this went on over there? I've been a forum member over there for several years, and I certainly have never seen anything like that. And I know for sure a great many members over there did serve their country, perhaps are too young to have been part of WW-II or Korea, but did serve proudly in the military. I wasn't at Normandy either, nor was I one of the guys in the Korea. I did have the privilege of attending Uncle Sam's cool summer camp in SE Asia.

The story about the South Korea Garands and Carbines has been around for several years. As I recall from the conversations about these rifles over there, the CMP never viewed these rifles, so they never gave an opinion of the quality of them. Since the transfer of these rifles was proposed by South Korea as a sale, the CMP would be prohibited under their charter of having anything to do with them anyway. The CMP does not import rifles, nor do they buy surplus rifles. They receive the rifles they sell (at a lower than retail price) from the US Military after the lend-lease rifles are returned to our military.

If you're into collecting surplus US military rifles, you're ignoring a great resource for the rifles themselves and parts for them if you refuse to go onto the site. I've bought a couple of carbines, and a load of parts over there at fair market prices for them, and have never had a problem with getting exactly what I bought from any seller on that site. A guy just posted a Saginaw carbine over there this evening for around $600.00, quite a price drop over what you typically see on say Gun Broker or other sites where people are selling surplus rifles.

But by all means boycott the site, that gives those of us who do go on their site a better shot at getting stuff.

[SfcMac]

Hey stickHauler How can you say that? I love going over there and Raising hell with them They really love me over there. I hope they don't have that kind of trouble in their personal lives I mean it's down more than it's up

[Chris_B]

I shouldn't have brought it up guys, I'm sorry. I guess I was trying to illustrate that even while I don't go to their forums and participate, it's not because the info is bad or it's a bad place, and I used that story to show just how much I stay away from their forums. I shouldn't have done it

Stickhauler, that was about two years ago. I do not' ignore' the CMP, the info on their site or the deals they have. I also do not "boycott" their forums. I can take no pleasure in posting there; I simply do not participate there any more. Big difference between a Boycott and just taking my ball and going home

The things that were said by a small group of folks were extremely disrespectful to US servicemen in my view because those people covered themselves in glory they had no right to share in. I couldn't see myself being civil to that small selection of people anymore, so I opted out of the forums to prevent causing trouble. That's my choice and I ask you to respect that, and I also ask you to bear in mind I hold no grudge against the people who are at their forums as a group and I don't spread poison about the CMP, or their forums. I just don't go there. Similar to how I no longer go to Providence Rhode Island on Saturday night. I take no pleasure in it any more, there's no need for me to go, so why do it

[SfcMac]

Hey Chris B relax Son I spent 27 years in the uniform and believe me I appreciate your concern. But like I said I love to go over there and just make their day. I understand where StickHaulers coming from He is a CMP customer and probably enjoys their company.Don't fault him for that. Sometimes I'm a nice guy, and other times I'll just ring some fools bell I have been accused of bad mouthing them, and just generally being a louse. I have one American rifle I have an M1917 US Enfield I have had her for almost 30 years The rest of my stuff is European/ eastern European You know Chris I still maintain good connections, and I'm seriously thinking of talking to friends about getting Service info on CMP employees To the best of my knowledge there is only one or two There is an Arms Depot or was at Anniston Alabama I remember seeing when I went to Ft McClellan during the Riot in Birmingham The 2nd ID was called in along with the 101 Airborne.Anyhow according to what I have been able to find out Orest Michaels spent his entire Career there. Like I said He knows the Garand. I went back to FT Mac a few times but never did get to see that Armory again.

[Chris_B]

Oh, I'm not excited. Just clarifying because I've made a mess and that means I should clean it up. I have nothing but respect for servicemen and servicewomen. Hell I even respect the Marine that threw a trash can at me in San Diego!

I think that the CMP 'South Store' is still Anniston, isn't it? And Camp Perry is the 'North Store'?

[SfcMac]

Threw a Trash can at you What was that all about? Chris You can take this to the Bank Any Damn jarhead throws a trash can at me and he 's going to wear it I guarantee that Not just Marine, anybody

[BruceM]

"It's also my understanding the CMP turned down these Korean returns due to the bad condition they are in."

Doesn't have thing one to do with the situation. DCM, now CMP can only, by law, sell guns which are US property, whether they be from Stateside inventories or Lend/Lease returns deemed surplus . The problem is that the Korean guns were, for the most part, sold or given to the South Koreans and not lent to them. Therefore, the US does not own them and CMP cannot be involved. They must be imported and sold commercially. This situation is what allows The Obama Administration to get involved in their importation, as stated earlier in this thread. This is my understanding of the situation and it has been discussed ad nauseaum on the CMP Discussion Forum.



Bruce

[Chris_B]

I was visiting a friend who lives near Pendleton. Her apartment complex had some off-base living for some marines who were finishing up their hitch in the corps. I guess it was easier to have them off-base for a couple months than to find them a spot on base just to have them split in 90 days. She was friends with them, so I ended up hanging out with them. Long story short, after almost making another marine fighting mad at the bar- which meant we had to leave- this same guy grabs a trash can and heaves it at me on the walk back to the apartment complex, out of the blue

Well next morning a different pair of marines came by (trashcan man was...somewhere else, I got the impression they handled it) they explained that the guy was fresh (like last week he was in-country) back from Iraq and it was a standard game on deployment- when bored, they would try to **** off the new guy until a fight started. So, I was "the new guy" to him although I'm not a marine, but this guy was too drunk to know or care.

Then I drank bloody marys and watched NASCAR with these two marines for half the day while the brother of one of the two made the best brisket I've ever had

I never blamed the guy for being F'd up a little. One day he's in Iraq, and 72 hours later he's back in the states drinking with people he doesn't know. That can't be an easy transition. But it was kind of funny, he reminded me of Donkey Kong the way he heaved the barrel, lucky for me he was so drunk or he might have hit me with it while I was trying not to bust out laughing

I was more unhappy about the huge spiderweb I nearly walked into later- there was a spider about as big as my fist in it. Damnation, that creeped me out. I expected to see a puppy in the web or something

[SfcMac]

OK Chris that's different the Guy was just too wasted to know what he was doing OK Chris you have a good evening now

[campperrykid]

Might not hurt to Google:

The Collectible Firearms Protection Act
and
ATF : Surplus Korean firearms imports 'pose a threat to public safety..'

The gungrabbers are very afraid of the large numbers of Allied owned Carbines and 1911 series pistols . Supply & demand and all that.
This situation could be a huge victory for the Second Amendment Coalition.
And , we get to buy lots of M1 Carbines and 1911 series pistols from our Allies in Asia at very attractive prices .

What's not like about that?

[SfcMac]

At this point in time it is my considered opinion that I have no opinion period..
I do not own the Garand and I do not plan on owning it.This rifle is becoming too much of a hassle.Therefore I should keep my 2 cents to myself about these Korean M1s. It is your lawful right to own this particular rifle, if you can figure out some way to get it here to the USA Trying to reason with the President or Secretary of State will be like talking to the wall. You would probably get better results from the wall then you will from the Government.I am told by Family in federal Law enforcement that the ATF did in fact say that about the Korean M1s because they are being told what to say, and what not to say. I believe that to be the truth.

[DG45]

Thanks to all who've responded with information on this. I gathered from all these posts that there is in fact a supply of M-1's in South Korea that the Koreans would be willing to sell to US interests who would be interested in purchasing them. That the CMP is not involved in this and will not get involved because they don't pay to import guns into the US; they just refurbish and retail out whatever surplus guns they are supplied by the Federal government. That whoever purchases these guns will probably be one or more private importers who would then sell them in the US, the same way that foreign guns are imported and then sold here. However, that the sale of these M-1's in Korea has been blocked by the US State department. That a number of legislators have been pressing the department to drop the ban and allow this deal to happen. That we should all contact our congressmen and demand that they push the State Department to reverse course on this. That the recent election results should help to get this ban reversed. Is that about it?

[Cheapshooter]

^^^^^ Correct, but don't look for much movement soon. The scumbags we through out are still in Washington until January, and more concerned with getting more of The Community Organizer in Chief's agenda passed!!!

[kraigwy]

The Korean M1 issue has been beat to death so I'll not address it.

I will address the complaints about the CMP and their forum.

I think its a crock. Yeah there are bad apples in every tree, but to condemn a whole forum is ridiculous to say the least.

The CMP is an excellent program. Child of the DCM started by Teddy Roosevelt. Main Goal is to provide surplus military weapons and training to the American Citizen (and Soldiers through the SDM Program). The DCM was funded by congress. In 1996 it was turned over to civilian management. The CMP receives no tax dollars, Their programs are funded by sales of surplus rifles and equipment.

The CMP Forum is an off shoot, or part of the CMP Programs. There are many veterans as members. They provide, just like this forum, guidance and advise to any and all who ask it.

Are they proud of the History of the Rifles they buy, YOU BET, as am I. I look at every mark, scratch and smudge on my CMP guns and ponder how they got there, what was the soldier doing when those blemishes got there.

I bought a used sling for my Carbine. It had a name written on the inside. My wife did a search on military sites and found that name was listed twice as serving in WWII. One, was in the SP in 1944, one in Europe in 1944. Does that information add value to my Carbine and Sling, You bet your ass it does.

I'm proud of the fact that these were AMERICAN guns, that helped the AMERICAN Soldier win that conflict. I believe a huge majority of members of the CMP Forum feel the same way.

I think we should all go to that Site and see for ourselves. Like I said, there are bad apples in every tree, but you don't cut down the whole tree.

I'm proud to be listed as a CMP Customer, I'm proud of the fact they accepted me to attend the GSM MI Course and I'm proud to say I'm a CMP GSM Master Instructor. I'm further proud to be on the list to assist in instructing the Army's SDM Program, in Conjunction with the Army Marksmanship Unit.

[DG45]

Hi Kraigwy,

Just drove through your beautiful state 45 or so days ago on my way to Yellowstone. Loved it.

Just wanted to say that in no way did I intend this thread to be a slap at the CMP or CMP forum. I probably should have jumped in sooner to try to keep the thread on the track I intended. I understand what the CMP does, and why they wouldn't be involved in the Korean deal. A couple of guys chimed in to mention some philosophical or political disagreements they'd had with one or more of the employees of one of the stores, and somebody mentioned that somebody hadn't served in the military, etc. I don't see how any of that has anything to do with the mission of the CMP program or the job it does. I've never purchased from them but I may someday.

The south store is in Anniston, Alabama. That's a beautiful area in the foothills of the Appalachian mountains. Ft. McClellan used to be there. I think the city or county owns it now. There's still a beautiful golf course there. My daughter graduated from nearby Jacksonville State University several years back. Be sure if you ever go to Anniston to eat at least one meal at Top o the River restaurant in Anniston and get a bowl of pinto beans and a bowl of greens to go with your fried catfish. Nothing compares! Theres also a military museum there thats worth a visit.

[SfcMac]

CheapShooter I never really looked at your Signature But I'd like the Respectfully suggest a minor change
"GROWING OLD IS INEVITABLE. GROWING UP SHOULD BE MANDATORY"

Captain Stuart While I agree in principle with your statement about the CMP itself, I am adament about the lack of respect their forum has for others. Unforunately I was in several units who refused to allow their soldiers to buy from the DCM. This was always a command perogative. I retired in 2000, and 4 years after President Clinton reorganized the entire program. I only have one American Rifle The M1917 US Enfield I got it from and old Nam buddy and it has been in my possession for 30 years. I compete with her. I take her hunting. I have said this more than once I support the CMP itself and urge collectors of that rifle to deal with them. Old Msg Orest Micheals is like myself an old Retired NCO. He knows the Garand He spent his career around it. I on the other hand spent my 27 years in the Infantry, and the MPs. For what it is worth to you I started my Career with the M1 in 1958 I saw the M14 in 1961 and finally the M16 in Vietnam in 1965 When I came back in the M16 A2 was in service. I fail to understand why my not wanting an M1 is such a problem I own the famous bolt action rifles of Europe and the Second World War. My next weapon will be the Soviet SVT40 Tula or the Ak47 Kalashnikov. Well Captain I have said all I'm going to say If you wish to respond, by all means
SFC Paul McDermott US Army Retired

[Chris_B]

I will address the complaints about the CMP and their forum.

I think its a crock. Yeah there are bad apples in every tree, but to condemn a whole forum is ridiculous to say the least.

Kraig-

I, for one, have posted in several places in this thread about a singular incident concerning a small group of people at the CMP forums. My comments are not directed at the CMP forum, the CMP, or any member of the CMP. Nor were they a condemnation of the CMP, it's mission, or how they go about doing it. I support the CMP with my money and with my words. Their forum is populated with people free to speak their mind and some of those free speakers are people I do not agree with. That is the extent of my 'negative' experience with the CMP- some people who say things on their forums. That's it.

You are free to think anything is a crock; that's your right. I have expressed respect for you more than once on this forum, and I ask you respectfully, if you feel that my comments are 'a crock', to carefully re-read my statements. Here's just a couple examples of things I have posted concerning the CMP in this thread:

That's just a select few of the members there and not a condemnation of the CMP or their forum but I don't care to read any more comments like that so I don;t frequent the place

I shouldn't have brought it up guys, I'm sorry. I guess I was trying to illustrate that even while I don't go to their forums and participate, it's not because the info is bad or it's a bad place

The things that were said by a small group of folks were extremely disrespectful to US servicemen in my view

I couldn't see myself being civil to that small selection of people anymore, so I opted out of the forums to prevent causing trouble. That's my choice and I ask you to respect that

I hold no grudge against the people who are at their forums as a group and I don't spread poison about the CMP, or their forums. I just don't go there.

Kraig, I respect your accomplishments and your pride in the CMP, but if your comments are directed at things I have said here, please consdier that it is possible that you are in the wrong

If I have misunderstood your statements or intention then I apologize for singling out your comments

Chris

[campperrykid]

Congress is working on bringing the Carbines and Garands home for US buyers. The Collectible Firearms Protection Act is attracting quite a bit of support:

H.R. 615
118 sponsors
S. 381
10 sponsors

Looks like South Korea bought this batch of Garands and Carbines when they were arming the Homeland Defense Reserve Force in 1968 -1969 time frame.
" Scenes from an Unfinished War: Low-Intensity Conflict in Korea , 1966-1969 " discusses the context of the times:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/178039005x

According to DA Pam 550-41 , 1969 :
" The establishment of a " home guard " appears to be popular among the people , as shown through successful fund drives to purchase rifles ... for the reserve force."

[kilimanjaro]

I don't care if every single one of them is only good for parts, we need to get them imported and on the market just for the principle of it, and let the opposition keep ranting about 'assault rifles' while the public snaps them up. There is a great interest in the history of WWII and Korea in this country, and a lot of new friends to the 2nd Amendment can be made if these become available.

[Ignition Override]

With today's first-time, historic downgrade of our nation's very old AAA rating (a nice new permanent record for our.....eh..."leader"), maybe the 'other' part of Congress' plus 'those' in the Senate will use their heads for a change, in order to survive the 2012 vote.

Most Garands have No parts that match, and would such new imports-being discussed-go mostly or completely to the CMP?

[4V50 Gary]

Not a bad idea at all.

In fact, if the government wanted people to happily pay more taxes, bring the M-1s home and loosen up on NFA weapons. A lot of people will be more than happy to pay $200 for the tax stamp on a selective fire weapon. Money will flow into the Treasury's coffers.