7.65 - 65 rifle round what is it?

GaryED50 · August 31, 2020, 07:46 AM

Hi

Going through my dads old stock of rifle rounds I found 10 rounds that are marked on the base 7.65 - 65

I've never heard of this caliber has anyone here?

Gary

Jim Watson · August 31, 2020, 09:16 AM

It is not marked 7.65 X 65, it is marked 7.65 - 65.

Most likely 7.65x53 Argentine, the FM standing for Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina and made in 1965.

I can't find what the SF stands for but it is a standard marking.

I googled several references to soft point bullets. Is yours?

ligonierbill · August 31, 2020, 09:18 AM

I think it's an old Mauser cartridge: 7.65-6.5. Check the case length. Bet it's not 65mm.

taylorce1 · August 31, 2020, 09:36 AM

My google-fu tells me it is 7.65X65 Belgian, and it looks like it was chambered in some FN Express Double rifles.

Quote:

Notes: This rifle is an improved version of the old Browning Superposed shotgun, turned into a rifle. It is an over-and-under design, and has the addition of a reduced-wear breech and a top-lever system for selection of the barrel to be fired. Most of these rifles are built with expensive woods and intricate engraving on the action. Because of the design of the weapon, only one barrel may be fired at a time.

I can't really tell but it looks like a rimmed cartridge in the picture. I'd start trying to research double rifles and see if you can find more info. There really isn't much that I can find just by googling the cartridge. I imagine it'll be close to the .30-06 in ballistics just based on the case dimensions.

GaryED50 · August 31, 2020, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

It is not marked 7.65 X 65, it is marked 7.65 - 65.

Most likely 7.65x53 Argentine, the FM standing for Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina and made in 1965.

I can't find what the SF stands for but it is a standard marking.

I googled several references to soft point bullets. Is yours?

Yes its a soft point

Gary

Jim Watson · August 31, 2020, 10:02 AM

I found a picture of a box of that ammo, said it was 15 rounds of soft point on stripper clips. Interesting. I saw speculation that it was military surplus with the full jackets replaced with soft point but nothing concrete.

**44 AMP** · August 31, 2020, 12:20 PM

Measure the case length. If it comes up to 53mm (approx) its probably 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. Also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser.

Soft point hunting ammo was made and stripper clips are for the Mauser rifle. so entirely possible soft point bullets put in by the factory, or later by some user.

jonnyc · August 31, 2020, 01:56 PM

Interarms imported a lot of Argentine 7.65x54 Mauser ammo, and reloaded them with SP bullets for the civilian market.

GaryED50 · August 31, 2020, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

Measure the case length. If it comes up to 53mm (approx) its probably 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. Also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser.

Soft point hunting ammo was made and stripper clips are for the Mauser rifle. so entirely possible soft point bullets put in by the factory, or later by some user.

I never learned how to read the metric side but here it is

**44 AMP** · August 31, 2020, 02:22 PM

Looks about right, in English units the length should be 2.1" (max case length) and finding unfired rounds with slightly shorter than max length brass is very common.

My vote would is for 7.65 Argentine Mauser.

Btw, it uses the same bullet as the .303 Brit, 7.62x554R Russian and 7.7mm Japanese.

SHR970 · August 31, 2020, 05:15 PM

The FM SF head stamp means: Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina according to Cartridgecollectors.org.

Jim Watson · August 31, 2020, 05:27 PM

Look at the size, look at the ballistics.
.308 nearly 70 years early.

kymasabe · September 1, 2020, 05:12 AM

Very cool !!
Do you still have the rifle too?

GaryED50 · September 1, 2020, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kymasabe

Very cool !!
Do you still have the rifle too?

Nope Rifle long gone

TRX · September 16, 2020, 04:58 AM

1889: 7.65x54 Mauser, 174gr@2,460fps

1954: 7.62x51 NATO, 175gr@2,600fps

65 years of cartridge development between them. Not all of the world's armies had fully converted to smokeless powder in 1889; the 7.65 is a dinosaur. But it can still hold its own. DWM's engineers done good.

--TRX (handloading 7.65 since 1983)

bamaranger · September 18, 2020, 12:10 AM

Watson, nailing it, post #2.

T. O'Heir · September 25, 2020, 01:17 PM

Like Jim Watson says, it's a 7.65 X 53 Argentine(same thing as the Argentine rimless, 7.65 mm Argentine, 7.65×53mm Belgian Mauser or 7.65 mm Belgian) made in 1965. Use a .311" bullet just like a .303 Brit.
FMSF is Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes#F
Having but one cartridge can be considered a reason to buy a rifle for it.

big al hunter · September 25, 2020, 08:22 PM

Quote:

I never learned how to read the metric side but here it is

That ruler doesn't have metric on it. One side is 1/8 inch marks. The other side is 1/32 inch marks. Metric and imperial don't line up that nicely.

But that looks like my father-in-law's 7.65 Argentine. I agree with everyone else.

BJung · September 26, 2020, 01:29 PM

That's a good round. According to Ken Waters' Pet loads book, the round matches the .308 at 150gr and shoots better than the .308 for heavier bullets. It ranks somewhere betweent he .308 and 30-06 in his opinion

Drm50 · September 26, 2020, 03:59 PM

I had a Mauser for 7.65 Belgian. It wasn’t a 98, maybe 91? I loaded a few for it, still have the die set.

August 31, 2020, 07:46 AM	#1
GaryED50 Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2012 Location: Dawsonville Georgia Posts: 542	7.65 - 65 rifle round what is it? Hi Going through my dads old stock of rifle rounds I found 10 rounds that are marked on the base 7.65 - 65 I've never heard of this caliber has anyone here? Gary Last edited by GaryED50; August 31, 2020 at 05:32 PM.

August 31, 2020, 12:20 PM	#7
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Measure the case length. If it comes up to 53mm (approx) its probably 7.65mm Belgian Mauser. Also known as the 7.65mm Argentine Mauser. Soft point hunting ammo was made and stripper clips are for the Mauser rifle. so entirely possible soft point bullets put in by the factory, or later by some user. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 31, 2020, 01:56 PM	#8
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	Interarms imported a lot of Argentine 7.65x54 Mauser ammo, and reloaded them with SP bullets for the civilian market. __________________ 2024 PA Cartridge Collector Show; Aug. 16-17, 2024!!! Buy...Sell...Trade All Types of Ammunition & Ordnance PM or email me for 2024 show details.

August 31, 2020, 02:22 PM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	Looks about right, in English units the length should be 2.1" (max case length) and finding unfired rounds with slightly shorter than max length brass is very common. My vote would is for 7.65 Argentine Mauser. Btw, it uses the same bullet as the .303 Brit, 7.62x554R Russian and 7.7mm Japanese. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

August 31, 2020, 05:15 PM	#11
SHR970 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 1,427	The FM SF head stamp means: Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina according to Cartridgecollectors.org. Last edited by SHR970; August 31, 2020 at 08:48 PM.

August 31, 2020, 09:16 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	It is not marked 7.65 X 65, it is marked 7.65 - 65. Most likely 7.65x53 Argentine, the FM standing for Fábrica Militar de Cartuchos de San Lorenzo, San Lorenzo, Argentina and made in 1965. I can't find what the SF stands for but it is a standard marking. I googled several references to soft point bullets. Is yours?

August 31, 2020, 09:18 AM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	I think it's an old Mauser cartridge: 7.65-6.5. Check the case length. Bet it's not 65mm.

August 31, 2020, 10:02 AM	#6
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	I found a picture of a box of that ammo, said it was 15 rounds of soft point on stripper clips. Interesting. I saw speculation that it was military surplus with the full jackets replaced with soft point but nothing concrete.

August 31, 2020, 05:27 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Look at the size, look at the ballistics. .308 nearly 70 years early.

September 1, 2020, 05:12 AM	#13
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	Very cool !! Do you still have the rifle too? __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

September 16, 2020, 04:58 AM	#15
TRX Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2008 Location: central Arkansas Posts: 400	1889: 7.65x54 Mauser, 174gr@2,460fps 1954: 7.62x51 NATO, 175gr@2,600fps 65 years of cartridge development between them. Not all of the world's armies had fully converted to smokeless powder in 1889; the 7.65 is a dinosaur. But it can still hold its own. DWM's engineers done good. --TRX (handloading 7.65 since 1983)

September 18, 2020, 12:10 AM	#16
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,303	And Watson, bring your......rifle? Watson, nailing it, post #2.

September 25, 2020, 01:17 PM	#17
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Like Jim Watson says, it's a 7.65 X 53 Argentine(same thing as the Argentine rimless, 7.65 mm Argentine, 7.65×53mm Belgian Mauser or 7.65 mm Belgian) made in 1965. Use a .311" bullet just like a .303 Brit. FMSF is Fábrica Militar de San Francisco, San Francisco, Argentina. http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes#F Having but one cartridge can be considered a reason to buy a rifle for it. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 26, 2020, 01:29 PM	#19
BJung Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2019 Posts: 773	That's a good round. According to Ken Waters' Pet loads book, the round matches the .308 at 150gr and shoots better than the .308 for heavier bullets. It ranks somewhere betweent he .308 and 30-06 in his opinion

September 26, 2020, 03:59 PM	#20
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,378	I had a Mauser for 7.65 Belgian. It wasn’t a 98, maybe 91? I loaded a few for it, still have the die set.