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Old April 1, 2007, 02:04 PM   #1
Sriracha
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Newbie question: loading .357 "minus P" for defense

Hi everyone,

I want to ask your advice on loading a weaker .357 round for self defense. Now, I'd like to shoot factory .357 magnum, but the sound and recoil is a bit much for me. On the other hand, I want more stopping power than a .38 +P. So, my plan is to get into reloading and make ".357 -P" loads with energy comparable to, say, a .40 S&W. Any suggestions?

I noticed that .357 is typically loaded with about 90% more propellant than .38 Special, while .38 +P has only around 5% more propellant. My idea is to use about the middle of these amounts of propellant -- for example, a .357 with 25-30% less propellant than usual. Is this a sound idea?

I realize that factory ammunition may be more reliable for defense. However, my thinking is that I can practice more if I reload, and collecting brass will be easier if I have a revolver, but since there are few affordable revolvers that shoot the cartridges like .40 SW or .45 ACP, I might as well roll my own reduced recoil/noise .357s. What do you think?

Thank you for your advice.

- Sriracha
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Old April 1, 2007, 05:03 PM   #2
cheygriz
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Get a good syupply of 125 gr JHP bullets, and load "starting" loads with powders like Unique, HS-6, Universal, AAC 5, AAC7. These will be fairly mild to shoot, but DAMNED potent for SD.
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:32 PM   #3
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Your .357 cases are a little bigger than the .38 Special, so it takes more powder just to break even on pressure with the .38's. The powders for magnum loads are slower burning, and that allows you to use more without exceeding safe pressures, but also wastes more because it doesn't finish burning with the bullet still in the barrel. So, some of that bigger charge is for the higher magnum pressures and power, and some of it is to make up for waste.

Buy the Hornady 125 grain XTP bullets and load them with either 5.8 grains of Alliant Bullseye powder, or, for cleaner burning, 6.3 grains of Universal Clays (not to be confused with Clays or International Clays, also from Hodgdon). Crimp them at the cannelure to 1.590" C.O.L. These loads will get the bullet to military 9 mm ball muzzle energy levels from a 5" tube. From your longer case, you will achieve this with much lower peak pressure (under 20,000 PSI) and should have a comfortable shooting round.
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Old April 2, 2007, 04:46 AM   #4
685cmj
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Can you ammo experts also give us some guidance on what is available out there for purchase!? Anyone know if one can buy a load (I have the same predicament in a very light .357 revolver that hurts to shoot magnum but I want nothing to do with reloading) like that described...something that falls between .38+P and the full .357 magnum?
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Old April 2, 2007, 03:17 PM   #5
James A. Mullins
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Hi, I'am James, and Not being a spert I'll try to explain why you cannot buy any 357 down loads. All comersial loads are ment to kick up the performace above what you can get with 38 special + P. You can buy 38 special +p 158 gr lead hollow points. This load is called the FBI load. The less offensive 357 load is the 110 JHC. This would be the softest recoiling 357 mag load. If you use the +p 38 load you should clean more often. The difference in legth will tend to lead up the .100 open chamber space. If not kept clean, eventually you won't be able to chamber a 357 cartridge.
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Old April 2, 2007, 05:54 PM   #6
cheygriz
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I'll assume that you're shooting a 5 shot "J" frame gun.

In realitry, practice is more important than power. anything that you can't kill with 5 well placed .38 +P loads, it's unlikely that you would have stopped it with 5 .357 Magnum loads.

Just get a box of .38 +P quality ammo and you'll be well protected.
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Old April 3, 2007, 07:23 AM   #7
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Factory ammo for PP

IMO, personal protection duty should ALWAYS be done with factory ammo. Here's why...

You roll a batch of the sweetest shooting stuff (in your mind's eye), load it, and actually have a SD shoot. All evidence will be collected and used for a potential trial. The Procecuting Attorney will paint you like a mad killer for cooking up the best killing load possible. Any defense is going to dig a deeper hole in front of a jury.

With factory ammo, you always claim that it's what the cops use. There's no arguement there.
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Old April 3, 2007, 10:20 PM   #8
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The court argument has been worn to death. It's starting to take on the aspect of an urban legend. As far as I know, Masaad Ayoob was the first and only person to claim factory ammo looked less evil in court and that handloads had been held against people by prosecutors in trials he had been an expert witness in. But, when pressed, he has been unable to name any actual case, much less produce a court transcript in which it was a factor. It seems to me more likely to be about imagining what attorneys might do with the information? Kind of the gun owner’s equivalent of gun control advocates imagining concealed carry permits would turn the country into a nation of Hollywood-style Dodge city gunslinger's. Reality and even reasoned imagination don’t always come to the same conclusions.

An attorney friend of mine says in real cases, both sides, if they're competent, will make the other look foolish. You say you only used ammunition that's approved by police departments, the other side says this shows you're a frustrated LEO wannabe gone vigilante, even carrying the same powerful ammunition only issued to law enforcement. (Of course it's only issued to law enforcement; everyone else has to buy it). You say you loaded rounds with hollow point bullets because the threat was serious and to protect your neighbors from overpenetration, they say you loaded inhumanly destructive ammunition. You say you loaded reduced power target shooting ammunition, they say that proves you didn’t really believe the threat was serious and therefore were not justified in shooting. My attorney friend said the first trial law professor he had in school told them that if you go into court, in the right, with complete and unassailable proof and truth on your side, your chances of winning are about 60%. That's why it's called a roll of the dice, and why people like to avoid it.

If you shoot someone in self-defense, and do so by means legal to possess in the circumstances and you meet the tests for justifiable homicide, an elected public prosecutor is unlikely to waste resources putting you through a potentially unpopular trial. If you aren’t lucky enough to live in a state that prevents criminals and their families from suing people who injured them to defend against a criminal act, heaven preserve you from him or his survivors. No matter what ammunition you use, the opposing attorney will make it look bad.
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Old April 6, 2007, 02:32 AM   #9
Ifishsum
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Your reasoning behind handloading is sound - you can make ammo that's exactly the power level you want. That said, I use .38 +p factory loads when loaded for SD in my .357, there is a significant difference in muzzle flash between my handloads and SD specific factory loads like Hydra Shok or Gold Dot. Otherwise I load all my own ammo.
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Old April 6, 2007, 03:35 AM   #10
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Quote:
cheygriz
Just get a box of .38 +P quality ammo and you'll be well protected.
Quote:
Ifishsum
That said, I use .38 +p factory loads when loaded for SD in my .357, there is a significant difference in muzzle flash between my handloads and SD specific factory loads like Hydra Shok or Gold Dot. Otherwise I load all my own ammo.

I agree.
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