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Old April 1, 2007, 12:46 AM   #1
dustoff
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How inportant is the case overall length

in bullets reloaded for a revolver. I currently don't have a set of calipers to measure my bullets (forgot to order them when I got my own set up) and I have reloaded and shot several hundred rounds without measureing. Am I asking for a disaster. I reload for a Taurus .38 spl and a Taurus .44 mag. I have factory ammo for both calipers loaded with the same type of bullets I am using. I set my seating die so that when I set my reloads next to the factory ammo they look like they are the same length. Please note that I am not loading these rounds to max charge. In many cases I am using the minimum powder charge. I reload my .45 acp at my brothers house, as he has a set of calipers and I know the bullet length is important to ensure it properly seats in the gun. I am going to be ordering a set of calipers soon, but I guess my concern is that before I can get a set of calipers I intend to go to the range. Should I put off shooting my latest batch of reloads until I can check them to ensure they are the exact length or are they generally safe to fire if they are slightly off?

I am new to reloading and any advice you can offer is appreciated. Please before you tell me to read a book, I have already read the second edition of Lee's Modern Reloading. I know I should probably get at least one more manual and the ABC's of reloading is on my list of things to buy.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old April 1, 2007, 03:12 AM   #2
rwilson452
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Oal

As long as your seating the bullets so that the crimp is going cleanly into the crimp grove of the bullet you should be ok as long as your not loading a max charge. If your have already loaded several hundred rounds the ABCs of reloading will be of little value. It's really a book for those that have never reloaded before. The Lee book got you started. I would suggest you spend the money you would have spent on the ABCs and get another data book. you can't have enough data manuals or brass. In the two calibers you mentioned OAL is not as important as in rifle and semiautos. Oal becomes more critical the closer you come to max charge weight. Accuracy can sometimes be improved with small changes in OAL. You can take a good straight edge and place factory ammo in each end of a row of cartridges with your loads in the middle place the bullets upright on a flat surface and place the straight edge across the top if your loads compare closely to factory loads with a similar or the same bullet you should have no issues at the starting load values your using. can't borrow your brothers calipers or take your loads over there to measure?
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Old April 1, 2007, 08:47 AM   #3
dustoff
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Quote:
your have already loaded several hundred rounds the ABCs of reloading will be of little value.
Thanks for the help. If the ABC's of reloading is a waste of my money I will not be buying it.

Quote:
As long as your seating the bullets so that the crimp is going cleanly into the crimp grove of the bullet you should be
The .38 bullets I am using have no crimping groove. I am using Rainier plated 125gr FP bullets. I am having some trouble getting the bullets to stay seated properly. If I use little to no crimp the bullets sometimes move. Adding more crimp and they are all over the paper and some key hole. I am using Hornady custom-grade 3 die set for the .38spl. The modern reloading manual says that if the bullet has no crimping groove it cannot be crimped. How am I to stop the bullet from moving if I can't crimp it? I did notice that some of the brass I have seems to hold better than others. I am thinking maybe the walls of the brass are thicker and so they hold the bullets better.

Quote:
can't borrow your brothers calipers or take your loads over there to measure?
I could take my loads to my brothers house to check them but I can't borrow the calipers. He is really picky about anybody borrowing tools (although he borrows my tools all the time). I won't be to his house before my next visit to the range but maybe a special trip may be a good idea.
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Old April 1, 2007, 09:08 AM   #4
intruder
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You can buy a cheap caliber at Habor Freight $18.00 Midway has them on sale sometimes for $9.00 . Calibers do not have to be expensive. A cheap one is better than none at all. They are a very important tool to have for quality reloads.
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Old April 1, 2007, 09:13 AM   #5
rwilson452
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38 and crimp

If I'm not mistaken Lee makes a taper crimp die for 38/357 If they do it might solve the problem by allowing you to tighten things up. Call Lee or Email Lee and ask. other solutions include more powder, different bullets. I use LSWC or flat point bullets in my .38. If you get good hard lead bullets leading is not an issue. Accually I mold my own with a Lee mold and tumble lube the bullets. Leading is no problem at all with those bullets. The LSWC bullets I mold are very accurate. Usually you will find that wadcutters are the most accurate in a .38 With the wadcutters it takes a little more work to load the cylinder due to the flat surface of the bullet. I use the RNFP for combat stuff and the wadcutters for target work. I use store bought for self defence. I rarely carry my .38 for SD as I prefer my .45ACP for that. Mold your own is a whole different hobby more more time, equipment etc. My source of lead dried up so eventually I suspect I will no longer mold when my lead gets used up. I still have two 5 gal buckets of wheel weights and some linotype left.
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:09 AM   #6
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Coal is EXTREMELY important as you get near maximum. Is is considerably less so at moderate levels.

Too many people here get "really hung up" on coal. Use good reloading practices as far as working up" your loads, and coal becomes much less important.

For the first hundred years of smokeless powder reloading, most reloaders couldn'd afford the super expensive calipers and micrometers needed to measure coal. It's only been the last twenty or so years that calipers have become available to average people.

For a century or more, folks set their seat/crimp die by using a factory round, and adjustng the die to duplicate the factory round.

That's why we WORK UP loads folks!
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Old April 1, 2007, 10:25 AM   #7
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.38 taper crimp die

The Lee .38 taper crimp die is part number 90781 MSRP $11.98
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
For a century or more, folks set their seat/crimp die by using a factory round, and adjustng the die to duplicate the factory round.
That's exactly how I started. Even before that, I'd set OAL at if it would fit into a colt magazine, revolvers to the crimp groove.
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Old April 1, 2007, 11:33 PM   #9
jamaica
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Quote: Should I put off shooting my latest batch of reloads until I can check them to ensure they are the exact length or are they generally safe to fire if they are slightly off? end quote

Stretched cases in a revolver may strike the shoulder where the cylinder bore changes and the result is they won't go in until the rim contacts the cylinder. If they drop in OK, I would not worry.

A once fired brass can make a good comparison for the length of your brass.

I have reloaded 44 spl brass many times without trimming them. They do stretch a little every time they are sized though. 44 Spl operates at pretty low pressures though compared to 44 Mag.
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Old April 2, 2007, 03:59 PM   #10
dustoff
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Quote:
I have reloaded 44 spl brass many times without trimming them. They do stretch a little every time they are sized though. 44 Spl operates at pretty low pressures though compared to 44 Mag.
Is it important to trim pistol brass? I have been told that pistol brass does not stretch much and that trimming is generally not needed. I am only reloading pistol rounds for the time being and so I did not even buy a case trimmer.

Maybe one of you guys will volunteer to tell my wife I need to buy more equipment. I just ordered a brass tumbler over the weekend and I don't think she is going to be happy when I tell her I need to order more stuff.
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Old April 2, 2007, 05:13 PM   #11
Edward429451
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Is it important to trim pistol brass?
AFAIK the only time it would be a necessity is when using H-110 for 44 mag loads. I've never trimmed any handgun brass but had some extremely wide variations in my 44 loads (+200 fps) so inquired here about it and the conclusion was that H-110 is sensitive to crimps and must be uniform or the wide variations will occur. I've not gotten around to getting a trimmer plate so have not been able to confirm this for myself. I do know it made sense because I hand weighed the charges, and a lot of the rounds were very very consistent, and a few with a wide swing as noted.

Quote:
Maybe one of you guys will volunteer to tell my wife I need to buy more equipment.
You;re on your own there, guy.
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Old April 2, 2007, 05:46 PM   #12
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I've been reloading handgun rounds since 1965, and I haven't trimmed one yet.

There is an urban legend that straight sided semi-auto rounds like .40 and .45 ACP actually headspace on the case mouth.

If you believe that, get several different brands of .45, and measure the once fired case. you will see differences as great as .020 in case length.

These cases theoretically headspace on the case mouth, and some bullseye match shooters use chamber casts of their gun, and anal retentive case trimming to accomplish this. In reality, these cases headspace on the extractor, and work just fine with that factory ammo (or handloads) that vary .020 or more.

None of the reloading manuals will admit this, and most experienced reloaders don't like to discuss it, but even a new handloader with a case length guage or caliper can prove it to himself.

I know that I will be labelled a "dangerous heretic" for admitting this, but, like everything else in life, the truth will eventualy come out.
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Old April 2, 2007, 06:05 PM   #13
Edward429451
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I believe that. If it were true, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops to trim 45acp brass. Nonetheless, it works good headspacing off the extractor. I always used mixed brass and when I got my chrono I thought uh-oh, here's where I have to start sorting 45 brass by headstamp. I was absolutely amazed at little variation I got using mixed brass! I haven't tried it yet, but I doubt that sorting would make a difference either.
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Old April 2, 2007, 06:54 PM   #14
rwilson452
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Sometimes it's hard to be right.

these cases theoretically headspace on the case mouth, and some bullseye match shooters use chamber casts of their gun, and anal retentive case trimming to accomplish this. In reality, these cases headspace on the extractor, and work just fine with that factory ammo (or handloads) that vary .020 or more.

None of the reloading manuals will admit this, and most experienced reloaders don't like to discuss it, but even a new handloader with a case length guage or caliper can prove it to himself.

I know that I will be labelled a "dangerous heretic" for admitting this, but, like everything else in life, the truth will eventualy come out.

I guess we will both rot in some hot place
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