Firearm safety and small children - Page 2

peggysue · March 30, 2017, 12:23 AM

I took my kids shooting and flying a plane (I'm on the pedals.) when they were all 4 yrs old. It all turned out well.

SIGSHR · March 30, 2017, 02:57 PM

Not a parent, only contact I have with small children is at church. IMHO repetition is the key to implanting knowledge in small minds.

vito · March 30, 2017, 04:43 PM

By all means teach the children respect for, and safety with firearms. But understand that children, all children, at some point think that they know what they are doing regardless of what their parents told them. No hiding place is safe, and many children have been hurt or killed by guns kept "hidden" on the top shelf of a closet or some place similar. And even if your kids are well educated and responsible, there well might come a day when a friend is at your home and, for example, bragging that his dad has the best gun ever. Or even, when your child says that "Dad has a gun but I am not allowed to touch it" and the friend says something like "I don't believe you, show me!".

My kids are grown and gone, but I have grandchildren here often. Every gun I own is under lock and key or physically on my person. I have two GunVault handgun safes, one in my bedroom and one in the lower level of my home, both with loaded handguns. The GunVault won't stop a determined and capable burglar, but are more than strong enough to stop curious or troubled kids.

You could likely ignore all of the comments on this thread and leave a loaded handgun in your bedside table and never have a problem. But the consequences of that small chance of having a problem are too enormous to be ignored.

rpseraph · March 31, 2017, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peggysue

I took my kids shooting and flying a plane (I'm on the pedals.) when they were all 4 yrs old. It all turned out well.

Ok Peggy, I have to ask, are we talking about shooting while flying a plane? haha. Like a fly-by shooting?

I have a 6yo and a 2yo boys, and a girl on the way. The 6 year old has seen me cleaning my guns coming back from the range, and he has handled them under my supervision. He is well aware that if he sees a gun and I am not around, he finds a grown up and tells them and doesn't touch it. I haven't taken him shooting yet, but that'll happen sometime.

I keep my home defense weapon 'HOT' and locked up in a quick access safe.
- 99% safe isn't good enough
- 'My kid would never touch a gun' isn't good enough
- 'My kid wouldn't let their friends touch my guns' isn't good enough

If the gun isn't on my person, my guns will be locked up. The ammo will be stored separately. This is what is working best in my house with little kids running around.

Shotlock47 · March 31, 2017, 12:48 PM

Thank you very much for the advice you guys. It will be staying on me for the time being and secured with a trigger lock at night. I'm starting to realize every kid is different. Def not hiding from her, I want her to understand the dangers of guns, but some things are nessecary to have. I made the mistake the other day of explaining to her why I have it. I told her daddy has a gun to protect her mommy and brother, and that there are good people and bad people, and sometimes bad people have to be shot to protect good people. Well my dumbass was scolding her the other day for getting into the kitchen and mixing my coffee grounds and sugar together, then eating half of two tomatoes... Lol. I told her she was being a bad girl, and she responded with no daddy don't shoot me, I'm a good girl.... Talk about breaking my heart.. the words we choose to use are everything. Hopefully someone in my position reads this and takes a lesson from that. The words we use to explain the dangers are just as important as the precautions we take. I'm glad someone mentions the electric fence thing, sorry I don't remember ur handle. But same thing I feel. Don't touch doesn't mean anything unless we explain why. thks for advice guys awesome thread turn out and u guys really helped. Anyone know of a quality thumbprint scanner safe?

Loosedhorse · March 31, 2017, 01:17 PM

Quote:

I made the mistake the other day of explaining to her why I have it.

Good rule with small kids is to keep answers short, and let them ask more if they want. For example, "where do babies come from?" can be answered in many ways; "From mom's tummy," is a good way to start.

Quote:

no daddy don't shoot me, I'm a good girl.... Talk about breaking my heart.

Young kids don't have a real sense of consequences. I doubt she pictured anything as bad in saying that as you did, since you understand the reality.

I'm sure you responded with something like, "I would never do that." And she believed you, because she already knows that. End of issue.

5whiskey · March 31, 2017, 01:23 PM

Quote:

I made the mistake the other day of explaining to her why I have it. I told her daddy has a gun to protect her mommy and brother, and that there are good people and bad people, and sometimes bad people have to be shot to protect good people. Well my dumbass was scolding her the other day for getting into the kitchen and mixing my coffee grounds and sugar together, then eating half of two tomatoes... Lol. I told her she was being a bad girl, and she responded with no daddy don't shoot me, I'm a good girl.... Talk about breaking my heart.. the words we choose to use are everything.

Aww... Yeah when my girls were much younger they had constant questions about why I arrest people, what we do with them, why I carry a gun. I was very generic, and kind of half truthful, when they were young and simply told them I only arrested people who were trying to harm someone, and I only carried a gun to protect myself or others. While not exactly true, it really is in the context of trying to explain to a 4 year old that you really don't want to explain it to in the first place.

tx_2_pa · April 2, 2017, 07:46 AM

I wasn't raised around guns either, I do believe that kids are best served by not making guns mysterious or forbidden objects, but by showing them rules of gun safety and even allowing them to see/handle them in a SAFE way.

My son is now 13, when he was three or so I started shooting/carrying and of course he was really curious. I would tell him all the gun makes/models I had. I taught him the rules of firearms safety and bought him a little kiddo airsoft pistol that I made him treat like a real gun, even kept it in my safe.

If he asked to see any of my guns I would take it out of my safe, unload it if it was loaded (most of the handguns were) and made him tell me what I was doing while I was making it safe (rack the slide, drop the magazine, check the chamber).

My wife was on the fence about my approach but it seemed to work. I slowed down with guns and me and his mom have since divorced, he's no longer around guns on a daily basis but he still remembers the rules and terminology.

One day I was home alone (wife and son were supposed to be gone until late), it was during the summer because I had a Bersa .380 in a cheap leather clip on holster (only wore it when I was wearing basketball shorts). I came inside and took the holster off and the gun off (that same gun had a bad case of pitting from me sweating through the holster and letting it rust) and sat it on the couch by me and ended up falling asleep watching TV. Less than an hour later my wife came in with my son and some nephews. My son saw the gun sitting on the couch and told the other kids they couldn't come in the front room and had go to his room. I don't know if my approach works for everyone but it sure saved me from one case of irresponsibility. After that I acted as if kids were in the house 24/7.

Loosedhorse · April 3, 2017, 07:05 AM

Your son sounds like a fine young man, tx_2_pa. I think we can suspect you had something to do with that.

Don Fischer · April 4, 2017, 11:36 AM

I started my son out with gun's when he learned to walk. He's 45 this year. I've never kept gun's locked up and anytime my son wanted I'd take him in the them. Rules, never get one out alone and never take anybody other than me to where they are kept. You want trouble? Make them a hands off mystery and lock them away. They will look them up just to figure out what the mystery is! Then to make matter's worse, they will show their friends to them. I never made them consider them a mystery and always went through checking chamber' when the touch them even thug I already had. You want your kid to actively seek them? My thought is to attempt to keep them hidden away and untouchable.

ShootistPRS · April 4, 2017, 12:20 PM

Don,
I can attest to your belief that locking the guns away and telling kids that they are dangerous makes kids more curious. My dad had guns that were locked away and the only time we were allowed to handle them was at the range.
Being curious and a rather bright lad i found out how to open the locks and get the guns out. Once when my folks were away I got out the 22 and fired it from the window out across the lake. It made so much noise that I quickly put it away and left the area. That is why I decided to make the guns a routine thing in my home. The guns were never a mystery and always available but the kids learned that to handle them there was that ritual of clearing the gun first. It turned out to be more work than the gun was worth. When we get together we like showing off our newest guns and they are always cleared by each person handling them. One of the better lessons I taught them.

ed308 · April 4, 2017, 06:51 PM

Times have certainly changed in my lifetime. I think I got my first .22 rifle when I turned 7 and then my first shotgun following year. I don't recall my father ever teaching me anything about firearms. But guns seemed to be in every TV show you watched and in every home you visited. And they were usually right out in the open. Most were not loaded. But you always knew to check and confirmed they weren't loaded whenever you picked up a firearm. And you also never pointed a gun at anyone. Period.

Todays times are different. Most people have little if any knowledge about firearms. I have a 16 year old daughter who has zero interest firearms. When she was little, I taught her to never pick up a firearm and tell an adult if she saw one. I let her handle them of course and gave some limited instruction. I leave no firearms out in the open or hidden in my home. All are locked up and out of sight. Not so much for her but for other people who come to my home. My CC pistols or ones that are used for defense are stored in a wall safe quick access and ready storage. All other rifles, shotguns and pistols are stored in a large safe.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · April 4, 2017, 07:03 PM

I was raised with firearms in the home. Most were kept unloaded a few weren't. Never verbally told to keep away. Just a trusting expectation by my parents I / we knew better too> touch. A home with a Father who never spared the rod and spoiled his child was a pretty good deterrent back in the 50s. Quite unlike today's home having hovering over parents with typical "go to your room!!" neanderthal corporal punishments.
BTW: Just saying. I don't think 2-3 year old's have the capability to comprehend the lethal-ness of any firearm. Loaded or not.

db4570 · April 4, 2017, 10:55 PM

I second an earlier response about http://www.corneredcat.com/

It's a really great site about gun safety and kids.

My thoughts on this topic in general, (and not directed at the OP, who seems very sensible):

I think hiding an unlocked gun is irresponsible.

I think locking a gun with a key that can be misplaced or left laying around is irresponsible.

I think assuming your kid is so obedient and disciplined that they'd never violate your rules is ridiculous.

We can be nostalgic for the "good old days" when every tyke was around guns and nothing ever happened... except things did happen. These were the days when we rattled around loose in the back of station wagons and pickup trucks. And kids got killed. I get chills when I think about some of the truly stupid things my parents let me do.

If I wasn't essentially 100% certain a kid couldn't get his hands on my gun, I would give up the gun.

David

ShootistPRS · April 5, 2017, 12:23 PM

Maybe I'm just a weird parent but I spent a lot of time with my kids. I was an attentive father and I enjoyed doing things with my kids. I was always involved and allowed them to be involved in what I was doing.

If you pay attention to your kids then they trust you and want you in their life, even in their teens. It wasn't always "fun and games" because I was a strict parent. I had a Lexan paddle that hung on the living room wall. I used it when my kids challenged my authority. They were told what they did wrong and why they were going to get paddled. They were left in their room until they were done crying and then it was over. They were each loved and guided on their way to becoming responsible adults. You have to have that balance of love and discipline, and you have to engage them - be a part of their life. You also have to allow them to grow at their own pace.

If you protect them from real life how will they learn to be successful adults?

FAS1 · April 6, 2017, 09:29 AM

Quote:

I think assuming your kid is so obedient and disciplined that they'd never violate your rules is ridiculous.

^^^^ I raised two great boys with few issues. One, I just had to say it once and be firm. The other, took a little more effort.

Education is a big part along with earned trust. Today, unlike then, you have lots of good ways to secure a weapon and still have reliable quick access if needed.

When toddlers are the subject, they can't comprehend using a toilet let alone what a gun is. Not worth the risk in my opinion with today's many options.

March 30, 2017, 04:43 PM	#28
vito Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2004 Location: IL Posts: 853	By all means teach the children respect for, and safety with firearms. But understand that children, all children, at some point think that they know what they are doing regardless of what their parents told them. No hiding place is safe, and many children have been hurt or killed by guns kept "hidden" on the top shelf of a closet or some place similar. And even if your kids are well educated and responsible, there well might come a day when a friend is at your home and, for example, bragging that his dad has the best gun ever. Or even, when your child says that "Dad has a gun but I am not allowed to touch it" and the friend says something like "I don't believe you, show me!". My kids are grown and gone, but I have grandchildren here often. Every gun I own is under lock and key or physically on my person. I have two GunVault handgun safes, one in my bedroom and one in the lower level of my home, both with loaded handguns. The GunVault won't stop a determined and capable burglar, but are more than strong enough to stop curious or troubled kids. You could likely ignore all of the comments on this thread and leave a loaded handgun in your bedside table and never have a problem. But the consequences of that small chance of having a problem are too enormous to be ignored. __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ― George Orwell

April 4, 2017, 06:51 PM	#37
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	Times have certainly changed in my lifetime. I think I got my first .22 rifle when I turned 7 and then my first shotgun following year. I don't recall my father ever teaching me anything about firearms. But guns seemed to be in every TV show you watched and in every home you visited. And they were usually right out in the open. Most were not loaded. But you always knew to check and confirmed they weren't loaded whenever you picked up a firearm. And you also never pointed a gun at anyone. Period. Todays times are different. Most people have little if any knowledge about firearms. I have a 16 year old daughter who has zero interest firearms. When she was little, I taught her to never pick up a firearm and tell an adult if she saw one. I let her handle them of course and gave some limited instruction. I leave no firearms out in the open or hidden in my home. All are locked up and out of sight. Not so much for her but for other people who come to my home. My CC pistols or ones that are used for defense are stored in a wall safe quick access and ready storage. All other rifles, shotguns and pistols are stored in a large safe. Last edited by ed308; April 4, 2017 at 07:00 PM.

March 30, 2017, 12:23 AM	#26
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	I took my kids shooting and flying a plane (I'm on the pedals.) when they were all 4 yrs old. It all turned out well.

March 30, 2017, 02:57 PM	#27
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Not a parent, only contact I have with small children is at church. IMHO repetition is the key to implanting knowledge in small minds.

March 31, 2017, 12:48 PM	#30
Shotlock47 Junior Member Join Date: March 25, 2017 Posts: 7	Thank you very much for the advice you guys. It will be staying on me for the time being and secured with a trigger lock at night. I'm starting to realize every kid is different. Def not hiding from her, I want her to understand the dangers of guns, but some things are nessecary to have. I made the mistake the other day of explaining to her why I have it. I told her daddy has a gun to protect her mommy and brother, and that there are good people and bad people, and sometimes bad people have to be shot to protect good people. Well my dumbass was scolding her the other day for getting into the kitchen and mixing my coffee grounds and sugar together, then eating half of two tomatoes... Lol. I told her she was being a bad girl, and she responded with no daddy don't shoot me, I'm a good girl.... Talk about breaking my heart.. the words we choose to use are everything. Hopefully someone in my position reads this and takes a lesson from that. The words we use to explain the dangers are just as important as the precautions we take. I'm glad someone mentions the electric fence thing, sorry I don't remember ur handle. But same thing I feel. Don't touch doesn't mean anything unless we explain why. thks for advice guys awesome thread turn out and u guys really helped. Anyone know of a quality thumbprint scanner safe?

April 2, 2017, 07:46 AM	#33
tx_2_pa Junior Member Join Date: February 27, 2017 Posts: 8	I wasn't raised around guns either, I do believe that kids are best served by not making guns mysterious or forbidden objects, but by showing them rules of gun safety and even allowing them to see/handle them in a SAFE way. My son is now 13, when he was three or so I started shooting/carrying and of course he was really curious. I would tell him all the gun makes/models I had. I taught him the rules of firearms safety and bought him a little kiddo airsoft pistol that I made him treat like a real gun, even kept it in my safe. If he asked to see any of my guns I would take it out of my safe, unload it if it was loaded (most of the handguns were) and made him tell me what I was doing while I was making it safe (rack the slide, drop the magazine, check the chamber). My wife was on the fence about my approach but it seemed to work. I slowed down with guns and me and his mom have since divorced, he's no longer around guns on a daily basis but he still remembers the rules and terminology. One day I was home alone (wife and son were supposed to be gone until late), it was during the summer because I had a Bersa .380 in a cheap leather clip on holster (only wore it when I was wearing basketball shorts). I came inside and took the holster off and the gun off (that same gun had a bad case of pitting from me sweating through the holster and letting it rust) and sat it on the couch by me and ended up falling asleep watching TV. Less than an hour later my wife came in with my son and some nephews. My son saw the gun sitting on the couch and told the other kids they couldn't come in the front room and had go to his room. I don't know if my approach works for everyone but it sure saved me from one case of irresponsibility. After that I acted as if kids were in the house 24/7.

April 3, 2017, 07:05 AM	#34
Loosedhorse Junior member Join Date: March 25, 2017 Posts: 115	Your son sounds like a fine young man, tx_2_pa. I think we can suspect you had something to do with that.

April 4, 2017, 11:36 AM	#35
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	I started my son out with gun's when he learned to walk. He's 45 this year. I've never kept gun's locked up and anytime my son wanted I'd take him in the them. Rules, never get one out alone and never take anybody other than me to where they are kept. You want trouble? Make them a hands off mystery and lock them away. They will look them up just to figure out what the mystery is! Then to make matter's worse, they will show their friends to them. I never made them consider them a mystery and always went through checking chamber' when the touch them even thug I already had. You want your kid to actively seek them? My thought is to attempt to keep them hidden away and untouchable.

April 4, 2017, 12:20 PM	#36
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Don, I can attest to your belief that locking the guns away and telling kids that they are dangerous makes kids more curious. My dad had guns that were locked away and the only time we were allowed to handle them was at the range. Being curious and a rather bright lad i found out how to open the locks and get the guns out. Once when my folks were away I got out the 22 and fired it from the window out across the lake. It made so much noise that I quickly put it away and left the area. That is why I decided to make the guns a routine thing in my home. The guns were never a mystery and always available but the kids learned that to handle them there was that ritual of clearing the gun first. It turned out to be more work than the gun was worth. When we get together we like showing off our newest guns and they are always cleared by each person handling them. One of the better lessons I taught them.

April 4, 2017, 07:03 PM	#38
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	I was raised with firearms in the home. Most were kept unloaded a few weren't. Never verbally told to keep away. Just a trusting expectation by my parents I / we knew better too> touch. A home with a Father who never spared the rod and spoiled his child was a pretty good deterrent back in the 50s. Quite unlike today's home having hovering over parents with typical "go to your room!!" neanderthal corporal punishments. BTW: Just saying. I don't think 2-3 year old's have the capability to comprehend the lethal-ness of any firearm. Loaded or not.

April 4, 2017, 10:55 PM	#39
db4570 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2013 Posts: 167	I second an earlier response about http://www.corneredcat.com/ It's a really great site about gun safety and kids. My thoughts on this topic in general, (and not directed at the OP, who seems very sensible): I think hiding an unlocked gun is irresponsible. I think locking a gun with a key that can be misplaced or left laying around is irresponsible. I think assuming your kid is so obedient and disciplined that they'd never violate your rules is ridiculous. We can be nostalgic for the "good old days" when every tyke was around guns and nothing ever happened... except things did happen. These were the days when we rattled around loose in the back of station wagons and pickup trucks. And kids got killed. I get chills when I think about some of the truly stupid things my parents let me do. If I wasn't essentially 100% certain a kid couldn't get his hands on my gun, I would give up the gun. David

April 5, 2017, 12:23 PM	#40
ShootistPRS Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2017 Posts: 1,583	Maybe I'm just a weird parent but I spent a lot of time with my kids. I was an attentive father and I enjoyed doing things with my kids. I was always involved and allowed them to be involved in what I was doing. If you pay attention to your kids then they trust you and want you in their life, even in their teens. It wasn't always "fun and games" because I was a strict parent. I had a Lexan paddle that hung on the living room wall. I used it when my kids challenged my authority. They were told what they did wrong and why they were going to get paddled. They were left in their room until they were done crying and then it was over. They were each loved and guided on their way to becoming responsible adults. You have to have that balance of love and discipline, and you have to engage them - be a part of their life. You also have to allow them to grow at their own pace. If you protect them from real life how will they learn to be successful adults?