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Old February 21, 2021, 12:22 PM   #26
Sanch
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Shurshot,

It is 100% absolute fact.

If you doubt me, call the FBI Firearms Training Unit at Quantico tomorrow. Get it straight from the horse's mouth. The FBI Firearms Training Unit did the scientific research. Its finding were published in the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin.

The 10MM was an answer to a question never asked. It's a .40S&W with no ballistic advantage and short of the .45 ACP's efficacy.
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Old February 21, 2021, 01:22 PM   #27
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"That is with G17s, at a max of 15yds...."(Shadow9mm)

15 yard qualification? Most LEO's qualify at 20 to 25 yards. Max range is 20 to 25 anyhow. Many of the shots are closer, 3, 7 or 15 yards, but extend out to 25. At 15 yards, a slingshot would work.
We used to qualify out to 25yds for the past 12yrs or so, as of last year they changed the course on us. If I remember correctly this is what it was.
Course of fire, 40rnds total
10rnds 3yds, 5rnds strong, 5rnds weak
10rnds, 5yds, 2 hand shooting
10rnds 7, 5 rounds standing, 5 rounds kneeling
10rnds 15, 2 hand shooting

The targets are bigger than IPSIC. but basically we had to keep everything within the c-zone. we could have 2 rounds in the d zone. Missing the silhouette was an automatic DQ. You had 4 chanced total, and had to pass 2 of them.
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Old February 22, 2021, 07:51 AM   #28
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They moved ours back to 20 yards as well. I'm not complaining.
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Old February 22, 2021, 07:52 AM   #29
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"The 10MM was an answer to a question never asked. It's a .40S&W with no ballistic advantage and short of the .45 ACP's efficacy."

If you say so Sanch!

I guess it comes down to the specific ammunition used. Of course watered down 10mm is similar to a .40. But why buy a 10mm and carry watered down target ammunition??? Would you buy a .357 for defense and carry target 158 RN .38 Specials in it??

I have some Underwood 10mm that is very hot, pretty sure it's quite a jump over a .40 SW, but I haven't run it through a chronograph or shot ballistic gelatin with it. Pretty sure from its recoil it has a significant "ballistic advantage" over the .40.

Last edited by shurshot; February 22, 2021 at 08:12 AM.
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Old February 22, 2021, 10:32 AM   #30
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Would you buy a .357 for defense and carry target 158 RN .38 Specials in it??
Cops have done that, too.
Some departments allowed .357 reloads, but the gun had to be carried with Specials in the cylinder.

I'd say "no ballistic advantage" for the 10mm is a bit of an exaggeration, when full-power 10mm retains as much velocity at 75 yards as .40 has at the muzzle.
You can argue that there's no need for a service pistol to hit hard at 75 yards, and Cooper eventually admitted as much, but that's not the same as "no advantage".
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Old February 22, 2021, 01:38 PM   #31
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Well...there is "no" advantage if the bullet being fired doesn't need that extra FPS.

And again, almost all commercial 10mm is loaded at it's partner .40 levels with perhaps at best a difference of 20grs in weight.
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Old February 22, 2021, 02:15 PM   #32
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Most .40" bullets are intended for .40 S&W velocities, so if driven at 10mm velocities, they'll be effective at long range, where .40 will have dropped out of the velocity window for maximum effectiveness.
I don't know that there are many .40" bullets on the market intended for 10mm velocities, other than the 135 grain from Nosler?
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Old February 22, 2021, 06:15 PM   #33
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I just found out Glock 23 and Glock 27 are the .40S&W version of Glock 19 and Glock 26 resp. That's interesting. To change from .40 to 9mm, I only need to buy the 9mm barrel. That's convenient. I might be interested in Glock 23 because I always want a Glock 19. I have the Glock 26, no point getting a 27.
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Old February 22, 2021, 06:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Alan0354 View Post
I just found out Glock 23 and Glock 27 are the .40S&W version of Glock 19 and Glock 26 resp. That's interesting. To change from .40 to 9mm, I only need to buy the 9mm barrel. That's convenient. I might be interested in Glock 23 because I always want a Glock 19. I have the Glock 26, no point getting a 27.
Sort of, you cant just swap barrels. You have 2 options.
One is an after market conversion barrel intended to change the 40 to the 9mm.
Option 2, is to drop in the factory barrel and replace the rear trigger housing with the ejector in it. If I remember right the 9mm ejector tilts in, the 40 is straight, and the 45 bends out.

you will also have to buy new mags....
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Old February 22, 2021, 07:12 PM   #35
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Most .40" bullets are intended for .40 S&W velocities, so if driven at 10mm velocities, they'll be effective at long range, where .40 will have dropped out of the velocity window for maximum effectiveness.
I don't know that there are many .40" bullets on the market intended for 10mm velocities, other than the 135 grain from Nosler?
200gr XTP are built for 10mm velocities.
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Old February 22, 2021, 07:14 PM   #36
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Glocks Caliber Changes

It is just a barrel swap. No other parts, except magazine. You can go back and forth on the same class, larger caliber to smaller. You cannot go up from 9mm to 40; you need to start with the bigger caliber pistol. You can not convert a 9mm to 40, unless you replace the slide.
Classes: 9mm and 40 S&W and 357 Sig, and 45 and 10mm. I read of some people changing extractors. I have had no need (yet).
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Old February 22, 2021, 07:58 PM   #37
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MarkCo, that's not True!

In a 1911, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm and 38 Super can be s swapped with a barrel and recoil spring change. The case heads are close enough that you may just need some extractor tuning. The basic cut in the slide is close enough for government work. 9mm/40 glocks can be converted with a barrel swap.
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Old February 22, 2021, 09:34 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by rc View Post
MarkCo, that's not True!

In a 1911, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm and 38 Super can be s swapped with a barrel and recoil spring change. The case heads are close enough that you may just need some extractor tuning. The basic cut in the slide is close enough for government work. 9mm/40 glocks can be converted with a barrel swap.
I think he was responding to me in converting Glock 23 to 19 or 27 to 26.

I am still surprise though I don't have to change the recoil spring as there's a big difference in power between the two.
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Old February 22, 2021, 11:41 PM   #39
Marco Califo
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Recoil Springs

Who is MarkCo?
Quote:
I am still surpriseD though I don't have to change the recoil spring as there's a big difference in power between the two.
I put a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel in a G23.
It cycled every time, there was not much difference in recoil.
Nothing I have read about Glocks, barrels, and conversions, has said "recoil spring" at all. It does not ever come up.
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Old February 22, 2021, 11:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Califo View Post
Who is MarkCo?
I put a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel in a G23.
It cycled every time, there was not much difference in recoil.
Nothing I have read about Glocks, barrels, and conversions, has said "recoil spring" at all. It does not ever come up.
Music to my ears. I still have 15 days to chew on before I have to decide. OR, I might just keep it as .40!!! I have two 9mm, it's not as if I am dying for one.

Is .40 ammo harder to get than 9mm?
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Old February 23, 2021, 01:16 AM   #41
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9mm ammo is the most common.
40, 45, 38/357 tier 2 (readily available during normalcy).
10mm tier 3 - not so readily available.
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Old February 23, 2021, 10:56 AM   #42
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MarkCo is a member who is the pioneer of the shotgun portion of 3gun which basically created a new need for semi auto shotgun systems with expanding mag sizes. Different person, but take the compliment of the confused identity. Unless you think the targets in for shotgun in 3gun is a bit weird considering the intent of shotguns

Both the HST and Gold Dot factory loads are 200gr. Again though, they are at exactly the 40 factory FPS level. So is theat 20gr difference important? Probs not.
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Old February 23, 2021, 03:08 PM   #43
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"9mm ammo is the most common.
40, 45, 38/357 tier 2 (readily available during normalcy).
10mm tier 3 - not so readily available."(Marco Californ)


Last fall, none of the ammo you mentioned was available that I could see, aside from 10mm and I was able to easily purchase appx 700 rounds (of 10mm target & self defense), from various online sources at very reasonable prices. This was last fall... prices have increased.

These are not normal times and sadly there is no guarantee normalcy will return anytime soon.

*I am now in 2021 seeing 9mm , .357, .223 for sale sporadically... but the prices are not cheap.
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Old February 23, 2021, 03:45 PM   #44
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I agree, I went online to check, at this point, .40 or 10mm seems to be more available.
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Old February 23, 2021, 04:37 PM   #45
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I just checked all 3 calibers. Ammo is available for 9, 40 and 10. All are about 80 cents a round for target ammo and $1.50 to $2 a shot for good hollow points.


Alan, if you get a Glock 23 all you need is a 9mm conversion barrel and a 9mm magazine. Glock uses the same recoil spring for both calibers!
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Old February 23, 2021, 05:19 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie Lowman View Post
I just checked all 3 calibers. Ammo is available for 9, 40 and 10. All are about 80 cents a round for target ammo and $1.50 to $2 a shot for good hollow points.


Alan, if you get a Glock 23 all you need is a 9mm conversion barrel and a 9mm magazine. Glock uses the same recoil spring for both calibers!
Thank you.
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Old February 23, 2021, 08:13 PM   #47
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Which caliber (if either) is reloaded more?
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Old February 23, 2021, 08:15 PM   #48
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You want the 10mm.

If for some reason you decide against the 10mm go to 9mm. In today’s world 40 S&W doesn’t get you much.
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Old February 23, 2021, 08:25 PM   #49
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I would say the 10mm is reloaded more. 40 is in between and 9mm the least.
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Old February 23, 2021, 08:30 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Califo View Post
Who is MarkCo?
I put a Lone Wolf 9mm conversion barrel in a G23.
It cycled every time, there was not much difference in recoil.
Nothing I have read about Glocks, barrels, and conversions, has said "recoil spring" at all. It does not ever come up.
Yeah, most of what I hear with Glock 40 to 9 conversions is the magazine is the most important and the next most important would be the ejector and extractor, but so long as the gun is clean and you're not using steel case (because it's harder to extract), the .40 extractor should be fine w/ 9mm (I've never had an issue) and the ejector ejects the case, albeit weakly.

I wonder if a 9mm ejector would work for .40? If it can then you could keep the the 9mm ejector in the frame and just swap the extractors if you shoot steel case.
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