The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 2, 2017, 09:10 PM   #1
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Buffalobore .38 special Outdoorsman in LCR

My brother and I chipped in together to purchase a ProChrony Chronograph.
Today we finally got a chance to take some stuff to the range and actually get some real data from my LCR, LCRX, and Ruger security six.

He brought his Ruger Blackhawk 3 screw model, 6.5 inch barrel, so we were able to test various loads in various length barrels.

The most shocking of the day was when I shot the .38 special Buffalobore +P outdoorsman out of his 6.5 inch Blackhawk. We got an incredible 1239 feet per second on the first shot. This motivated me to record with film and we are posting a youtube video of the second shot coming in at a respectable 1218 fps.

Out of the 4" Ruger Security six the same load got 1174 fps.
Out of the 1.78" Ruger LCR a respectable 1027 fps!

158 grain Keith hard cast.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUDG...ature=youtu.be

As a comparison I had some Armscor .357 and some Magtech .357, both 158 grain, and neither one was able to match the BB .38 special load out of my .357 LCR for top speed.

I had the large hogue tamer grips on the LCR and it shot fantastic and no problems with recoil or comfort. I shot over 35 rounds of .357 mag and it was very comfortable.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 2, 2017, 09:41 PM   #2
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
video of the data for the Ruger LCR......1027 fps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh5h...ature=youtu.be

On all testing, there was no evidence of over pressure nor hard ejections.
This really sold me.
I am an LCR fan and Buffalobore fan!
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 2, 2017, 10:51 PM   #3
samsmix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2006
Location: Montana (Montucky?)
Posts: 1,273
Impressive.
__________________
You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life.

IF we're not supposed to eat animals,
howcome God made 'em outta meat?
samsmix is offline  
Old March 2, 2017, 11:43 PM   #4
Remington 51
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 1, 2008
Posts: 102
It is what I carry

Good to see validation
Remington 51 is offline  
Old March 5, 2017, 01:37 PM   #5
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
I am a little surprised at the lack of response to this thread.

This test kinda debunks some myths from other threads.

1. That a shooting .357 magnum in a gun as light as an LCR is too painful, and that you are going to shoot only .38 special through it anyways. FWIW, the LCR with the hogue tamer grip was more comfortable than my twice as heavy Ruger Security Six with the exposed metal backstab with original grips.

2. That it would not be possible to get to the 1000 fps with a 158 grain out of a shorter than 2" barrel.

3. That BB's load of a .38 special +P would have to be way over pressured to achieve these results.

I admit that before doing these test, I was not sure of any of this. But now you have one person's alternative facts!LOL
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 5, 2017, 02:20 PM   #6
RECTIFIER
Member
 
Join Date: January 15, 2015
Posts: 96
Impressive.!
RECTIFIER is offline  
Old March 8, 2017, 01:31 AM   #7
roscoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 16, 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 575
I carry the Underwood equivalent in my J-frame.
roscoe is offline  
Old March 8, 2017, 01:37 AM   #8
Radny97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2015
Posts: 1,021
Buffalo Bore from an LCR hits about ten sweet spots at once. The 38 special +p outdoorsman is my go to load for anything outside my home unless I'm in grizzly country and the HPSWC low flash short barrel 38 special is my CCW and home/office defense choice.
Tim Sundles (owner) knows what he is doing and is an expert in the field. The rounds are NOT over pressured (as alleged improperly above) and everything meets SAAMI guidelines (if there are guidelines for the round at issue and 38 +p does have guidelines). As a manufacturer BB has access to non-canister powders that have different characteristics than powders available to the consumer.
There's something special in the water in Salmon Idaho, so that probably contributes to their great ammo as well.
Radny97 is offline  
Old March 8, 2017, 05:44 PM   #9
shafter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 23, 2009
Posts: 1,624
This load caught my eye when it came out but I haven't gotten around to buying any yet. That's some serious ballistics for a standard pressure 38. It looks like I might speed up my purchase.
shafter is offline  
Old March 8, 2017, 07:16 PM   #10
ChiefTJS
Member
 
Join Date: June 25, 2009
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 96
Contrary to current "wisdom", the .38Spl can be a very good performer. Love the .38!
ChiefTJS is offline  
Old March 8, 2017, 07:29 PM   #11
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
That's some serious ballistics for a standard pressure 38.
Just be aware that it is +P, not standard .38 pressures, but according to BB, safe to use in any pistol chambered for .38 +P.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 09:02 AM   #12
samsmix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2006
Location: Montana (Montucky?)
Posts: 1,273
I am impressed by the load, but I guess I'm not seeing the niche for it.

Is it a way of saying "okay, so here's a .38 load for black bear country, if a .38 is all you have?

Is it a load for punching 1930s steel car bodies?

Perhaps a "camp meat" doe deer load for a light sidearm?

Surely not urban self defense? I know not all are sold on hollowpoints, but... well isn't some expansion desirable when we get above .32 & .380?

Help me see the purpose of this load in a world full of .357 choices. I see that it actually BEAT some .357 loads in the LCR (and it's GREAT performance from such a short barrel! ), but a .38/158 Keith at 1027 fps would seem light for some jobs, and too much for others.
__________________
You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life.

IF we're not supposed to eat animals,
howcome God made 'em outta meat?

Last edited by samsmix; March 9, 2017 at 09:11 AM.
samsmix is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 09:24 AM   #13
samsmix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2006
Location: Montana (Montucky?)
Posts: 1,273
Never mind. I just read High Valley Ranch's reply on another thread, which answered my question.
__________________
You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life.

IF we're not supposed to eat animals,
howcome God made 'em outta meat?
samsmix is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 10:05 AM   #14
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Yes, it was specifically designed for four legged critter protection, i.e. small bears, big cats, etc. with the Keith hard cast in mind for penetration. That is the niche.
Or any other reason for penetration over expansion, although the hard cast is designed to cut a bigger hole than FMJ.

And BB uses this same idea for their 9mm penetrator and .40 outdoorsman as well with a 200 grain. Interesting that all three have pretty much the same ME capabilities of around 400 foot pounds ME.

Although not the best, all things are a compromise in handgun carry.
So if a .38 is all you have then it expands the upper range of that weapon as much as possible.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 12:04 PM   #15
samsmix
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 29, 2006
Location: Montana (Montucky?)
Posts: 1,273
Gotcha. I have to admit, I wouldn't be afraid to pop a southern deer with it, given a close enough shot. It'd be a natural for Javelina. I'd hate to rely on it on some of the big black bears I've heard about in New England, but it seems like it would knok the edge off the appetite of the typical sub-250 pounder.

Impressive power from such a handy package.
__________________
You'll probably never NEED a gun. I hope you never do. But IF you do, you will need it worse than anything you've ever needed in your life.

IF we're not supposed to eat animals,
howcome God made 'em outta meat?
samsmix is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 04:47 PM   #16
reddog81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,633
Re: "3. That BB's load of a .38 special +P would have to be way over pressured to achieve these results."

There is no such thing as a free lunch... The only way to get a bullet going that fast is with pressure much greater than 38 +P. No pressure signs would occur until you are well above .357 Magnum pressures so that means nothing. The fact that the velocity is 1027 out of a 2" barrel is proof the load is greater than SAAMI pressures. The only thing that Buffalo Bore's ammo proves is that there is a LARGE safety margin built into modern handguns.
reddog81 is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 09:56 PM   #17
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Posts: 4,443
Quote:
The only way to get a bullet going that fast is with pressure much greater than 38 +P.
You have pressure measuring equipment to prove this?
Reloaders don't have all the various powders available to manufacturers, nor the pressure measurement equipment.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 10:21 PM   #18
reddog81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,633
I don't have a pressure tester, but I'm guessing BB isn't going to tell you the pressure it's operating at either.

You can't get that high of velocity without exceeding +P pressures by quite a bit. It's simple physics. If there was some magical powder that allowed you to increase velocity 50% using the same pressure all manufacturers would use it. As it turns out only the manufacturers who don't follow SAAMI specs are the ones who can get those velocities.
reddog81 is offline  
Old March 9, 2017, 11:49 PM   #19
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Quote:
but I'm guessing BB isn't going to tell you the pressure it's operating at either.
And that is the key word!LOL
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 10, 2017, 12:08 AM   #20
reddog81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,633
That's kind of my point. It's all just a guess as to what the pressure actually is.
reddog81 is offline  
Old March 25, 2017, 10:49 AM   #21
rblrbl
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2016
Posts: 14
Great stuff. I'm always interested in lcr snub chrono data from buffalo bore ammo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rblrbl is offline  
Old March 25, 2017, 08:58 PM   #22
Dave T
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2000
Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 1,456
Quote:
That's kind of my point. It's all just a guess as to what the pressure actually is.
Well, Buffalo Bore clearly states their 38 +P loads are SAMII spec. Guess you are calling them outright liars right here on a public forum. Nice!

Dave
__________________
RSVN '69-'71
PCSD Ret
Dave T is offline  
Old March 25, 2017, 09:28 PM   #23
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 10,966
If Buffalo Bore has access to "special powders not available to reloaders," wouldn't Winchester, Remington, Aguila, PMC, and all the other manufacturers have access to these "special" powders?

And, if they do-why aren't THEY producing these "super loads" that BB produces?

It doesn't add up.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old March 25, 2017, 11:15 PM   #24
HighValleyRanch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 15, 2005
Posts: 4,063
Bill, under that same logic, all loads of the various manufacturers would be the same, but even within the lower power end all the manufacturers vary in their load outputs.

Not all people want the hottest loads. I mean there are tons of shooters who could not handle these loads just because of the recoil in light weight guns.
The reason I like these loads is that they get into the four legged protection area for a .38 +P. And for SD I carry the lighter Hornady Critical defense loads.

So other manufacturers are happy to let the boutique manufacturers get away with having the hottest loads. Just like every car doesn't have to be like a corvette!

By the way, I just got my 3 inch LCRX and am looking forward to testing the BB Outdoorsman in the longer barrel with my Chrony as soon as the weather clears a bit. Since Ruger doesn't make this in the .357 magnum yet, the BB load is the perfect answer to this being a more ideal woods/ kit gun.
__________________
From the sweet grass to the slaughter house; From birth until death; We travel between these two eternities........from 'Broken Trail"
HighValleyRanch is offline  
Old March 26, 2017, 09:49 PM   #25
Radny97
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 8, 2015
Posts: 1,021
HighValleyRanch I'll be very interested in your chrono results from the LCRx 3 inch. Please share when you get them. Thanks!
Radny97 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.13467 seconds with 10 queries