10mm 200 gr WFNGC 1.260" COL too long

[Astocks2622]

Hello
I got some Beartooth 200gr WFNGC bullets to build a woods load for my 10mm RIA 1911...
the data I'm using (working toward) is from Mike McNett, at Double Tap. He posted loads over on another forum, with a 1.260" COL, & 11gr Blue Dot for around 1250 fps... like I said, woods load.
anyway, loaded 5 with a starting load of 9.5 gr, & went to test-feed them thru the gun.
the front corner of the bullet catches on the side of the magazine, preventing you from loading more than 2 rounds.
I loaded some dummy rounds at 1.25 & 1.24 COL to test. the magazine seems to operate normally at 1.24"... I know I don't want to push too deep into the case B/C of pressure spikes. is .020" too much?
obviously I'd still start low & build up in .2gr increments looking for pressure signs.
is there a reason that approach isn't safe?

[RickB]

If you are going to start low and work up, you are going to be good to go. That's always the right way to do it.
That said, I think every bullet I've loaded in 10mm was at 1.26"? The bullet would have to have a pretty weird profile to need to be loaded shorter.

[steve4102]

OAL is always bullet and firearm specific. The round must first, fit-feed-fire, if it cannot do that, then there is no need to worry about pressure.

You know what you did to get the rounds to feed, now adjust your powder work up accordingly. Sounds like you have done just that.

On an aside, 11gr of BD is Hot. All my data including Lyman Cast bullet data lists a Max charge of 9.6gr @ 1.250. Lyman list a Start ot 8.6gr, you may want to drop your start charge down a little from 9.5gr. That may already be a Max load.

BTW, what recoil spring did you install in that RIA? Mine came with a 14, I change to a 22 before the first rounds were fired.

[Astocks2622]

thanks. the bullets are pretty hard & act more like a jacketed bullet, from what I've read. Speer lists 10.0 gr for a 200gr TMJ, & I have seen several other posts of people using 10.5 gr on the hardcast 200gr w/o problems, but I think I will back off to 9.0 as a start.

My RIA had issues to the point that Armscor replaced the gun (manufacturing issues, not nuclear pressure issues). the new gun came w/ a 20 or 22 pounder. I do plan on installing an EGW flat firing pin stop to slow the slide down w/o speeding it up too much on the way back forward...

[Tomas]

That is a hot load. I've tried some of his loads before and though they worked, they trashed my brass.

Be careful.

You may need to seat the bullet deeper, just make sure you start that load light, it's soooo important.

[SonOfGun]

A word of caution (use as many grains of salt as you wish), I would never load a 200 gr with 11 gr of Blue Dot. 11 gr is over max in my books.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by Astocks2622

My RIA had issues to the point that Armscor replaced the gun (manufacturing issues, not nuclear pressure issues). the new gun came w/ a 20 or 22 pounder

I had to send mine back as well, they had to replace the barrel.

Got a picture of that thing?
Here is mine.

Midnight Blue Cerakote, Bobtail cut, Water Buffalo Grips.

[mlk3454]

I load mine on average to 1.25" bit have gone up/down 0.01" to help feeding wadcutters/HP/fn bullets or to push rounds over book loads...load to fit/function first then play with charge weight IMHO

[WESHOOT2]

Under that bullet I suggest your 1.240" OAL for function, and AA9 as the propellant.

Blue Dot can get "non-progressive" in certain cases.




Okay, one joke

[SpringOWeiler]

Back it down! The 1911 can't handle the full power 10 loads like the glock. Main reason why, take the slide off both and weigh them. That'll answer the question immediately.

[Astocks2622]

actually, the RIA 1911 10mm has better case support than the glocks (fully ramped barrel), & I have an EGW squared slide stop & 20lb spring to help slow the slide on its way back.

I plan on getting some AA#9 to try out too.

[Sevens]

I'm a fan of Alliant powders and I keep very near & dear to my bench the 2005 Alliant printed guide to assist me with published loads. The 2005 printed guide is the last decent source of published load data from Alliant before they began changing ALL of their load data to Gold Dot and other Speer/ATK specific bullets.

It's been my experience that the published data in the 2005 guide isn't "crazy" but it also doesn't err on the side of extreme caution the way I've noticed from some sources. (Lyman 49, for example, seems to typically show data under many other sources)

But I do trust the '05 guide. And this guide doesn't happen to have published data for a LEAD slug at 200gr, but it does offer data for two jacketed slugs at/near that weight.

They show a MAX of 10.0 grains Blue Dot under a 190gr JFP and a MAX of 8.9 grains Blue Dot under a 200gr FMJ.

I believe that running up to eleven full grains of Blue Dot under a 200gr lead slug in 10mm is a lofty goal and I'd be putting a LOT of extra care in to my approach if that were my goal.

• I'd be using only new brass for that ammo, and that brass would be relegated for other (lesser) duty after it's initial firing
• I'd be running a magnum primer, for the extra thickness of the primer cup in holding all of that pressure in check
• I'd be hand-weighing those charges with a wonky flake powder like Blue Dot that meters "mostly" well, "most" of the time
• I'd be chronographing each round to see if this OVER BOOK load was actually returning increasing velocity numbers and not just producing more pressure with no return on investment

...That's if I were specifically tasked with trying to get to 11.0gr of Blue Dot under a 200gr lead slug in 10mm.

Instead, I wouldn't use Blue Dot at all and I probably wouldn't be trying to go over book with it in 10mm.

[Clark]

With 200 gr bullets, beartooth and otherwise, I can get 1.3" to feed from a 10mm Glock 20.

With the same bullets I can only get 1.126" to feed from a 40sw Glock 22.

In the quest for power, Blue Dot is no good in either. The case fills up and even compressed it is still wimpy.

800X, but a pain to measure, will make the most power.
Power pistol is easy to measure, and can still make way more recoil than will be practical in a 40 ounce 10 or 40.

[SpringOWeiler]

Astocks: The "solution" to the frame cracking problems seems to have been omitted by RIA. Please just be careful, no load is worth losing fingers over. I have had much better results with Longshot in every bullet weight in the 10mm. I did a wetpack test with 200xtps last weekend. I had used 8.5gr Longshot for an impact velocity of 1171fps. Got 9.4" penetration, ~68caliber, 88%wt retention, and one very nasty wound track. The downside of the 10mm for us is that all the bullets are designed to work at 40S&W velocities.

[Astocks2622]

yep, I'll be chronographing each step from 9.0 grs up. if I am not seeing the velocities go up, or am seeing pressure signs, I'll stop there. I'm trying to get as much out of the 10mm as I can (safely). I use the 200 gr for woods carry, & I've got a 155gr Gold Dot load for in town.
Sevens: where might I get a copy of the 2005 Alliant guide?

[SpringOWeiler]

Best of luck in your en devour! I found that mag primers really cut down on the extreme spread when loading hot 10.
I'm a member on a paid reloading sight that is blocked out from the public but I would like to provide you with some Bluedot loads to at least see if you correlate with.
Highest
9.6gr 200xtp 1148fps 5" barrel
8.9gr 200xtp 1110f[s 5.5" barrel
My Loadings (G20)
9.6gr 200Nosler Sporting 1285avg, 60fps ES (6" stormlake barrel +24lb spring)
OVERMAX!!!
10.0gr Bluedot 200Nosler Sporting 1180fps, 25fps ES Mag Primer, 4.6" factory barrel.

If you are after top speed Longshot is the way to go, bluedot is too fast when dealing with 180gr's and above. All my longshot loads in the similar setups exedede those by 120fps and with similar amounts of powder. If those bullets you are using are lead, why not choose the load with the best grouping. Lead bullets are just gonna punch a hole and don't need high fps to do it.

[Sevens]

Sevens: where might I get a copy of the 2005 Alliant guide?

Typically, I would suggest a time machine. I got my 2005 the same way I got my 1988 Accurate guide... snagging one from a gun store when I was there buying primers and powder.

However, you're in luck. Some fine gent has uploaded .pdf versions of many older guides, and as these were distributed *FREE* back in the day, I suppose that's perhaps one reason that he's not been yelled at or "lawyer threatened" for hosting them. However, you can bet that no powder distributor condones the use of older data, as they will assure you (and re-assure you ) that their current stuff is the best stuff, yadda yadda, etc etc.

This place has some phenomenal older stuff hosted here.
http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre...M/Alliant.html
Kind of a little gold nugget for handloaders, IMO.