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Old July 10, 2016, 06:03 PM   #1
TimSr
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Family Heirloom

My Dad recently gave me this. It belonged to my grandfather. He kept it under his pillow. It came into our home in the 60's after he passed away. I can remember Dad and my brother shooting it when I was a kid, not being able to hit anything. Now I think its because we never used the right ammo. Probably everything we shot in it was dangerous.

This is an H&R Young America. These were made from 1884-1941. A ton of them were made, in 32 S&W, .22 rimfire, and few in 32 rimfire. After lots of research, I've concluded mine is a first model, 3rd variation, which means it was made between 1897-1904, made for black powder 32 S&W round. The later versions for smokeless powder were marked with .32 S&W on the barrel. Mine is not marked. Later models had 6 digit serial numbers. I'm not sure if some even have 7 digits. Mine is SN# 2481.

This gets back to dad and my brother shooting it in the backyard. They simply bought ammo for "a .32". .32 S&W was later called .32 SW Short, after they came out with a 32 SW Long. These would have been too long to function, so that wasn't a concern. There was also a .32 Colt Long and Short. The .32 Short Colts will fit in this gun, but as I found out, very sloppy fit. I know because I almost fired some in it! Cases would have badly distorted or split. Of course, my biggest concern is that Dad (and probably Grandpa) probably bought and fired the then common .32 ACP in it, which aside from being a smokeless round, produces a lot higher pressure than Short or Long .32 SW or .32 Colt! Thank God the gun is still intact.

Anyways, it's neat to have such a nostalgic piece of American history in my possession. I may whip up some ultra light handloads and fire it.









.32 Short Colt!
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Old July 10, 2016, 08:42 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
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Looks like you actually found a box of .32 Short Colt, which is a different cartridge than the .32 Smith & Wesson.

As originally loaded, the .32 Short Colt employed a heeled bullet (like the .22 LR) with the outside diameter the same as outside diameter of the case, or around .314.

That was changed years later to a modern style bullet, which reduced the bullet around .301, with a hollow base that would expand into the rifling (hopefully) on firing.

You can fire .32 Short Colts in your Young American, but you might not get very good accuracy.

If they had fired .32 ACP in that gun, you'd very likely know it by excessive headspace/endshake with the cylinder. It didn't take a lot of .32 ACP to beat those inexpensive guns all to hell and back.
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Old July 11, 2016, 06:57 AM   #3
TimSr
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It's a little bit loose, but I'm not sure how much of that was typical of guns made back then, and how much of it was due to abuse.

The box of .32 Short Colts was given to me about 20 years ago from a guy who accidentally bought them for his 32 ACP. I've been looking for a home for them ever since. Thought I finally could us them. I'll probably not shoot them in this as this was a blackpowder model, and fitting so loose, I'm sure the cases would split. I'll probably use some 32 ACP cases, trim them down to 32 SW length, and use my old Lyman manual which lists some ultra mild loads. I use to load 32 ACP, so I have bullets and dies.
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Old July 11, 2016, 08:05 AM   #4
Jim Watson
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Or you could just buy some of the right brass and not depend on the thin semi-rim of the ACP.
http://www.midwayusa.com/32-s-and-w/br?cid=9476
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Old July 11, 2016, 11:49 PM   #5
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Congratulations! You have a real, live, honest-to-goodness "Saturday Night Special"!
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Old July 12, 2016, 07:03 AM   #6
TimSr
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Quote:
Congratulations! You have a real, live, honest-to-goodness "Saturday Night Special"!

We have not been able to locate it in recent years, but my brother found a retro ad published in a 70's Field and Stream magazine from the 1920's advertising it as a 4th of July Special for $3.95 with a cartoon picture of a guy shooting it in the air.

Quote:
Or you could just buy some of the right brass and not depend on the thin semi-rim of the ACP.
I'd do that if I were going to use this as a shooter, but to just fire a few 5 rounds, until it moves on to the next generation, I'll just use what I have on hand.
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Old July 12, 2016, 08:04 AM   #7
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Tim, why not just order the correct holy black ammo? Fire it a few times then pass it and the ammo on someday. Then there is no confusion as to what is supposed to be used in it. http://www.buffaloarms.com/32_Smith_....aspx?CAT=4441
I for one really like H&R Revolvers, thanks for sharing the pics and story. I enjoyed the read.

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Old July 12, 2016, 12:09 PM   #8
bedbugbilly
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Nice family heirloom!

I have one identical to yours that belonged to my grandfather (DOB 1867 - DOD 1963). Yep, you saw right, he was born in 1867.

Mine is no longer serviceable but it's a nice family piece. My grandfather raised and bred sulky horses. He was on the New York racing circuit and in Buffalo, NY at the same time President McKinley was shot. He carried the pistol while on the racing circuits. In later years, it was under the counter of the lumberyard that he and his brother owned (they bought it in 1913). My Dad gave it to me in the 60s.

Lot's of different "Saturday night specials" made in those days. I'm sure you treasure yours and much as I treasure the one I have!
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Old July 14, 2016, 08:17 PM   #9
James K
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An H&R .32, marked "The American/Double Action" was the first revolver I ever fired. The gun was lost in one of the family moves, and I have no idea now whether it was pre- or post-smokeless powder, but I shot it with whatever I could get at the local hardware store. (I was not 21 or even 18 at the time, so if an ATF agent sees this I guess I will be thrown in prison, but maybe I can use ignorance of the law as an excuse, something that seems pretty popular lately.)

Jim
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Old July 15, 2016, 12:25 AM   #10
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I have one too. Friend gave me for fixing his guns. He is retired in old age. His aunt used to carry the revolver in her purse till she passed away. Perhaps the gun had never been taken apart for cleaning, the base pin was rusted in the cylinder. I really tried but failed to fix it. Have never fire it thus far, perhaps never will be.

The trigger pull was atrocious. I did a trigger job on it, just for the heck of it. Taking it apart wasn't bad. But putting it back together could become a chore. It could be done if you are patient.

-TL
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Old July 15, 2016, 07:25 AM   #11
TimSr
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I was reading that between 1884 and 1941 about 1,500,000 of these were made. I think that includes the rimfire versions. That's why they don't hold much monetary value.

Bedbugbilly, my grandfather had a shorter lifespan but he lived 1891-1968 so it has me wondering if he bought this new, or came across it in some other way.
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Old July 28, 2016, 12:16 PM   #12
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TimSr: A good light load for old 32s is 1.4 grains of Trail Boss powder with a .310 round ball (Hornady). You could also use 1.4 gr Red Dot, and, a cast 76-gr lead bullet meant for the 32 ACP instead of the round ball. You do want to be sure the gun is in good mechanical condition. You should also use 32 S&W cases and should be able to scrape up enough for a trial. In fact, if you send me a personal message with your address, I will send you a couple dozen once-fired 32 S&W cases.
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Old August 30, 2016, 08:08 AM   #13
TimSr
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It's been a little while since I posted this, but I finally got to shoot this old beast!

Thanks McShooty for the offer. just saw your post today when I looked it up.


I used .32 acp cases, and just seated a little deeper since the cases were longer than 32 S&W. I used 77gr LRN bullets with a minimum load of Bullseye from old Lyman's data. These chronied out at about 410fps.

I moved into 20' and still couldn't land them on the paper, until I noticed they were hitting the post about 12" above the black dot. I put a reference dot below the target, and was able to shoot some recognizable groups of 4-5". This gun was made with no rear sight, and I figure the original rounds probably had near twice the velocity, so I'm sure those were factors. After a few rounds the cylinder "got sloppy" and I thought I wrecked it until I discovered that the cylinder pin likes to work itself out when shooting, so I just had to watch it.

The gun itself is probably the biggest piece of crap I ever shot, but man was it fun! What a feeling to fire a 100+ year old piece of history! Makes you wonder how many did more damage to themselves with some of the guns in those days. I fired 24 rounds. Saved some for Dad to shoot. He said he would fire it AFTER I did.
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