CMP rifles

[308Loader]

What is the deal with the CMP? As I understand it, they are used military issue rifles and pistols in varying conditions from wall hanger, to useable, to museum quality. The program was designed to get people shooting so the armed forces didn't have to teach a new member as much as a non-shooter. The price for one of their rifles is ridiculous! If they even have them in stock. you can buy clones for 1/2 the price. I hear that 80,000 or so (google said) M1 are coming back to the us from the Philippines. Current price from the CMP for an operating M1 is $1500 or so, complete with rust pits, dinged up stock, broken and mismatched parts. We can buy much better modern production rifle for much less. what gives? The government got their moneys worth out of these 50 years ago, what happened to promoting the shooting sport?

Sorry for the rant, but seriously what gives? I am not a "collector" of firearms, I am a shooter. If the government made 10 bazillion parts for these things and wanted to offload them 50-100 years later, wouldn't they cost less than modern tech will put them out?

[mehavey]

They are currently running $700 (as-is) - $1,000 ("CMP Special (.30-06) M1 Garand. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield or HRA receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture.")

I, for one, find that entirely reasonable.

Please tell us where we can get a "cloned" Garand.

[Art Eatman]

308Loader, it's "Different strokes for different folks." I suggest that you Google for "firearms auctions" to get an idea of the world of collectors.

Me, I'm a hunter and not a paper-puncher. So what? Paper-punchers need love too.

[Steve in PA]

The price isn't ridiculous....it's a bargain! Should have bought one years ago when the price was lower. I think I bought my Service Grade M1 for about $500 or so. They aren't going to get any cheaper.

If you think those prices are bad, look up the prices for the 1911's they are selling!

[Scorch]

So lemme see. You want someone else to give you a rifle that's worth a bundle for just a little bit because you say it costs too much? If that works, I think I know how to get that new SUV I've been wanting. Supply and demand, fella, supply and demand. No supply of new ones, lots of demand for old original ones.

[1stmar]

The 1911 prices are disappointing IMO. Dont need another one but was going to get one for historical purposes. Very crowded market, you can buy some pretty nice shooters for $850 or less. At those prices they will only appeal to collectors which is not the case for the M1 which i think is a good deal, not as good as it once was but still good deal for what you get.

[jcj54]

for the prices.
When the CMP was formed to privatize the former DCM, it required an act of Congress.
The Democrats, who were majority in Congress at the time, mandated that rather than continue the very low pricing the CMP had to sell all firearms at current market value.
Thus, the pricing structure is what it is.
If you don't like it, take it up with your elected representatives.....
And FYI the M1 which cost the Government around $100 in 1957 would be $860 today when adjusted for inflation...

[thallub]

Sorry for the rant, but seriously what gives?

Folks want a piece of history.

[Nathan]

I'm not sure where you got your information.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Yes you can get a rifle for $300-$600. That will be a fine rifle, but it won't be a semi-auto 30'06 M1 Garand!

There are variants and makers that make them more expensive, but a field grade SA garand is about $800ish. It would resell on GunBroker for $1100, it seems....a rebuilt Fulton Aromory is $2500+.....the plus would be a lot.

[Art Eatman]

FWIW, the WW II cost of a Garand was $94.

[reddog81]

No one is forcing you to buy one...

Where can you find these M1 Garand clones for cost $300 to $400? Their website has field grades for $650, service grades for $750 and special grades for $1050.

[Road_Clam]

Paid $1030 for my CMP special M1 in -06 . Totally satisfied with that price point. The specials are expertly refurbished, new Criterion barrel, new Boyd's stock. Worth every penny. I paid $1049 for a hacked Vector full size Uzi that had to be sent back for warranty issues right out of the box.

[T. O'Heir]

"...you can buy clones..." No M1 Rifle clones made. And when you buy from the CMP, you get a wee piece of actual history that has been checked for safe function.
"...I am not a "collector"..." That says everything. Most rifles, even the low end ones, coming out of the CMP are collectable. Shoot an M1 Rifle just once and the whole thing will make sense to you. There's something about an M1 that no other rifle has. I think it's the perfect balance and not just that J.C. Garand was born in Canada.
"...what happened to promoting the shooting sport..." Governments do not care about 'em. Really never have.
"...much better modern production rifle for much less..." Name one.

[PlatinumCore16]

I think this is an issue of expectations perhaps? The cheapest, running M1 that I saw looking a week or two ago was right around $600-$700. For an M1 that probably isn't a looker, that's a damn fine price. It's not an SKS, and even those are approaching $400+ for a similar quality* rifle. The only current production rifle that seems like it would fall into the same category as the M1 would be the Browning BAR and even the lowest grade falls in at $1200+.

*Similar Quality here meaning condition of the stock, barrel, gas system, and whatnot. I in no way meant that the SKS and the M1 are on the same level. Two different weapon systems.

If you want a museum quality rifle, you're going to pay museum quality price. I, for one, don't need that as I would like to shoot my rifles.

[Red Devil]

CMP rifles

What is the deal with the CMP? As I understand it, they are used military issue rifles and pistols in varying conditions from wall hanger, to useable, to museum quality. The program was designed to get people shooting so the armed forces didn't have to teach a new member as much as a non-shooter. The price for one of their rifles is ridiculous! If they even have them in stock. you can buy clones for 1/2 the price. I hear that 80,000 or so (google said) M1 are coming back to the us from the Philippines. Current price from the CMP for an operating M1 is $1500 or so, complete with rust pits, dinged up stock, broken and mismatched parts. We can buy much better modern production rifle for much less. what gives? The government got their moneys worth out of these 50 years ago, what happened to promoting the shooting sport?

Sorry for the rant, but seriously what gives? I am not a "collector" of firearms, I am a shooter. If the government made 10 bazillion parts for these things and wanted to offload them 50-100 years later, wouldn't they cost less than modern tech will put them out?

Well...

Don't understand your confusion.


The CMP Rifle Sales web page clearly states the cost/condition of their M1 rifles.

Generally, a Service Grade M1 will be well under half used up (18-20,000 round service life), and the current $750 delivered price is still close to half of what a market price would be.

As for "clones?" The USGI M1 uses a forged receiver and machined billet parts. It would cost over $2,000 to reproduce it today.

A few months wait is typical, up to ~ Six.

Their C/S is also 100% and second-to-none.


A few years back, I ended up with a freezer full of near-new $600 Service Grade M1's, mostly Greek and Danish returns, as well as a few very nice USGI turn-ins.


If you are having trouble with this still sweetest of deals...?

Pity.

Red

[kozak6]

Yeah, the CMP's prices are truly ridiculous.

Ridiculously great. They have some field grades for $650 right now. Without the CMP, the main alternative might be those furious old men at gun shows with $2.5k signs.

There are no half price Garand clones. In fact, there are almost no Garand clones at all. If anything, the very few Garand clones that exist are extremely high dollar collector's items. Have you priced a Type 4 lately?!

FWIW, the WW II cost of a Garand was $94.

Interesting! An inflation calculator suggests that translates to about $1300 current dollars.

[agtman]

Interesting! An inflation calculator suggests that translates to about $1300 current dollars.

Which some Garand variants might well fetch today, depending, so that's pretty close.

Street prices for certain M1 variants - e.g., Service Grade Specials or LEAD re-builds from the 1960s - have climbed significantly from what folks actually paid for them 6 or 8 years ago.

That doesn't mean you can't get a decent M1 for less than $1K, ... you can, like the aforementioned FGs.

They're still mostly USGI, and they're definitely shooters (ask me how I know), and most guys looking for an M1 want it to shoot it, not let it collect dust at the back of the safe.

[kraigwy]

The CMP's mission is not to sell guns, their mission is to instruct US Citizens in Marksmanship.

The program had been on going, mandated by law since 1904. Prior to 1996 it was the DCM (Division of Civilian Marksmanship). The CMP was federally funded, run by the Army, but had the same mission.

In 1996, thinking they would kill the program some senators pushed to cut the federal funds. Without getting political, they suceeded, but the BY Product was the same program, that reaches more people then the DCM.

Congress decided the CMP would get its funding by the sale of surplus military rifles and assaries. It was discovered the Army could give the rifles away cheaper then they can destroy or store them.

Management was turned over the civilians, hense, the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

But again the mission is the same as that that was started in 1904 at President Roosevelts pushing.

Part of that Mission was/is to conduct the National Matches (Camp Perry) and a Small Arms Firing School (Small Arms Firing School) to instruct Civilians in the use of the current military rifle.

I've been involved in both, the DCM and CMP Programs, and there is no compairson. I dont blame the Army, they were dependant on federal funds from year to year, and their abilities to conduct the program sometimes suffered.

Since the 1996 and the CMP management, the program has grown and is still growing.

They too conduct the National Matches. But have expanded that to the National Matches at Camp Perry, to the Eastern (NC) and Western (AZ) games, The Oklahoma Games and other varying travel games, reaching more people.

To further allow more shooters to become involved they started the Master Instructor Program where qualified instructors taken to the Master Instructor corse, then sent back to their local clubs to conduct CMP Clinics and Matches.

The SAFS, also a requirement is also conducted at the Matches listed above but the CMP is trying to extend that program also.

I reciently (as well as others) was requested to send them an offer to conduct the SAFS at our local ranges. This will further allow for the Civilians to receive instructions in marksmanship using our current issued service rifle.

Again the program is funded by the sales of Surplus Militry rifles, (and now pistols). Before the rifles or pistols can be put up for sale, they are gone over by armors to make sure they are safe and in good working order. Then they are sold at below market cost.

The difference in buying a CMP rifle is you are guaranteed that you will recieve a working, safe firearm. If a defect sneaks out they will fix or replace the defective rifle.

Besides rifles/pistols, the CMP receives parts for these rifles/pistols. The last few years they've been conducting Garand Maint. Clinics where the students are trained to maintain the M1 Garand, and while at the clinics are required to build a safe M1, from parts with new stocks and barrels. You are allow to purchace the gun you build (and most do).

America is a country of riflemen. President T. Roosevelt wanted us to remain so, as it was necessary for the defense of our country. Presidnet Kennedy said the same.

DCM and now the CMP is continuing to keep it so.

Whether you like surplus weapons of not, whether you are a collector or shooter, remember, selling guns, or under cutting civilian firearms manufactors, is not the mission of the CMP.

Before one thinks the M1 or any other US surplus CMP Rifle is over priced. Examing closely on of those rifles. They arent made with investment castings or plastic molds, they were made with American Steel, by American machinest. There is no way anyone could produce one of these rifles at the cost the CMP sells them for.

The Model 70 Winchester use to be known as Americas rifle, it could be argued that currently the M1 Garand holds that title.

[dwwhite]

Thank you, Kraig...

I get tired of reading posts that decry CMP's prices and practices. I think these folks either

A.) Failed to read or comprehend the CMP's mission (hint... It's not to sell you a rifle at 20% of market value)
Or
B.) Never participated themselves or knew anyone who participated in any of the Marksmanship training or competitions that are sponsored or supported by the CMP

Folks in category A likely can't be helped, but perhaps the fact that anyone falls into category B is our fault for not spreading the word and inviting them to participate.

[shafter]

Just a few years ago Field Grades were going for about $510 each if I remember right and surplus ammo was .50/round. They weren't museum quality but they shoot just fine.

Remember, what seems like a decent score today, will probably seem like a screaming good deal a few years down the road.

[Art Eatman]

In 1951 or thereabouts, the pawn shops on East 6th St. in Austin, Texas, were loaded with single-action Colts for $25 to $35.

In 1966 I bought a four-digit serial number 1911 over-the-counter retail for $65.

In 1980 a buddy of mine bought a brand-new full-auto Tommy gun for $782 plus sales tax.

Wish I had a time machine.

[kraigwy]

In 1980 I bought my first M1 from the DCM for $112.70 delivered to my door in Anchorage. The last one I bought was from the CMP, about 18 months ago for $630 delivered.

The differnence is, I could afford the current $630 easier then I could the $112.70 in 1980.

Its all relative.

[darkgael]

I purchased a field grade Garand at the CMP store for less than $500 three years ago while attending the National Matches at Camp Perry. I am happy to have it.
I will check on prices again later this week while attending the matches.
;

[M88]

It saddens me a bit when I hear somebody that doesn't understand or appreciate why someone would want a piece of history. I currently own 7 Garands, 6 with WW2 numbers and one from Korean war. And a couple of M1903A3's, as well as Mausers, Carcano's, Enfields, Nagants and an Arisaka 99. Besides being very enjoyable to shoot (although ammo is expensive) I love just holding them and feeling what the men might have felt 75 or in the case of some, over 100 years ago carrying one around. It's a solid real piece of history you can touch and feel and call your own... every nick, scratch or rust pit tells a story. Something you can pass on to your grandchildren! As was said, it's supply and demand. They only made so many. They're not making new ones and if they did they would be reproductions, not the real item. Every collector that grabs one means one less for a future collector. As for those M1's from the Philippines the OP mentioned, dig into that a little and you will find the majority of those are in poor shape. Apparently they were stored in a warehouse that was falling apart, so they weren't stored properly. Water damage, insect infestation, asbestos contamination. They spent several million just to clean them up enough to bring them back to the states. Frankly, $1000 for an M1 is a steal even though as a kid I remember seeing them stacked in a barrel for $175 a pop. If I only knew. As was said... if you've ever picked one up, loaded it without losing your thumb and felt the satisfying unique sound and feel of firing it, you'd understand why they are still in demand.

[308Loader]

Ok my bad maybe, is it possible I wasn't looking in the right place for pricing. I get the collector value of militaria. lowest price I could find for a rifle was way more than I expected, same with the 1911's

"I purchased a field grade Garand at the CMP store for less than $500" That is what I figured for rough shape rifle. Couldn't find one on their website.

"about 18 months ago for $630 delivered." That's what I thought they were going for.

"They have some field grades for $650 right now." where?

Not knocking the whole thing, maybe just missing some information.