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July 10, 2018, 03:09 PM | #26 | |
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Mine sure don't see combat. Nor do they need a 'combat trigger'. I think I understand the point you're trying to make, but the way you're going about it feels like "argument for the sake of argument."
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July 10, 2018, 03:32 PM | #27 | |
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The stock government pattern AR trigger strikes me as the government cheese of triggers.
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July 11, 2018, 08:12 PM | #28 | |
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Last edited by davidsog; July 11, 2018 at 08:21 PM. |
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July 11, 2018, 08:14 PM | #29 | |
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July 12, 2018, 10:19 AM | #30 |
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I have had good and bad mil-spec triggers. As for Uncle Sam doing the homework, I don't trust Uncle Sam who uses least common denominator, one size fits all, made by the lowest bidder mentality in designing and sourcing products. Some stuff works. Some stuff works well. Some stuff sucks. Some stuff doesn't work so well.
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July 12, 2018, 10:38 AM | #31 |
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It wasn’t a general statement on government procurement. It was specific to small arms. 26 1/2 years US Army as a trigger puller..never had a trigger issue with any rifle and never saw one.
I have seen civilian target triggers that are unsafe for anything but a range. |
July 12, 2018, 10:42 AM | #32 | |||
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The M4 may have a good and practical trigger that is durable and gives good reliability, but it surely isn't mechanically safer than a two stage trigger, and few would call it "very nice". Quote:
EDIT - Someone makes a grip screw that has a screw within it that takes up the the pre-travel in an AR trigger so one can adjust his sear engagement down to nothing at all. The concept seems nuts to me. I think I dislike those more than "binary" triggers.
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July 12, 2018, 12:03 PM | #33 | |
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Yes, the Army has experienced some issues with the last upgrades with the weapons discharging going from semi to auto. That has never been experienced before and is limited to last batch of contracted upgrade rifles. They are still investigating and I highly doubt the trigger design is a cause. |
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July 12, 2018, 02:30 PM | #34 |
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So, you're saying that the DoD issued you an AR-15, and not an M4.
Sure...
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July 12, 2018, 03:01 PM | #35 | |
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July 12, 2018, 11:14 PM | #36 | ||
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July 13, 2018, 12:40 AM | #37 | |
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Nor will aftermarket triggers designed to for the AR-15 work in the M4. You're comparing apples to bananas, and trying to lead carrots to water by dangling a horse in front of them. I know the point that you're trying to make, but you're ignoring reality. The trigger groups of the modern semi-auto-only AR-15 and the burst or auto M4 are so different that you may as well be saying that the AR-15 "Mil-Spec" trigger is equal to, and interchangeable with, that of the HK USP.
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July 13, 2018, 10:06 AM | #38 | ||
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So, if your M4 meets MILSPEC and your AR-15 has a MILSPEC trigger then it meet the same standards. The triggers will correctly perform a function check for the functions available to the weapon (AR-15 is semi-auto only and does not require a burst/full auto circuit) and not break below the 5.5lbs listed in the manual and break by the 8.5lb (M4A1) or 9.5lb(M16/AR15) upper limit. For Example: Quote:
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July 13, 2018, 10:26 AM | #39 | |
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July 13, 2018, 10:28 AM | #40 | |
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If you install improper parts or improper assembly then you can expect things not to work correctly. Let's disassembly your car engine and put in the wrong timing chain. Then we can then by your logic condemn the reliability of all vehicles of the same make/model because your improperly assembled vehicle does not function correctly. |
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July 13, 2018, 10:30 AM | #41 | |
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July 13, 2018, 11:33 AM | #42 | ||
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Mil-spec are not all made to the exact same standards, unfortunately, and that is why problems like the one you describe do occur. They are supposed to be made within a a range of tolerances. Individual problems are found and replaced on a continual basis, during manufacturing and in the field. Armorers replace the bad parts. That is what happened in your example, but it was a whole freaking batch that got through and not individual units. To suggest there are no bad parts would be naive. The reality is that there are good and a bad mil-spec triggers made within the range of tolerances and then some bad ones that fall outside of the range of tolerances. You like the mil-spec trigger, which is fine, but you give the impression that it is a very exactingly precise mechanism and that just isn't the case. It is not for everyone. Quote:
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July 13, 2018, 12:01 PM | #43 |
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AR and M4 triggers are exactly the same--they both use a finger to fire. Lets get back on track folks--since my request is within the realm of commonly used/accesible to the public AR triggers.
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July 13, 2018, 01:30 PM | #44 | |||
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Stagpanther,
I hope your question was answered. Decide what purpose you want out of your AR-15 build and build accordingly. MILSPEC triggers on an AR-15 are designed for the practical reality of combat and work very well in my limited experience. It is almost impossible for you to get a MILSPEC trigger as a civilian but you can get something that approximates MILSPEC. Obviously this is a rather large debate among AR-15 users... Quote:
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July 13, 2018, 01:43 PM | #45 | |
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Problem is still under investigation. Problem is limited to a small batch of specific weapons in which a single specific contractor worked on said weapons. |
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July 13, 2018, 02:16 PM | #46 |
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I wasn't actually looking for a recommendation for a particular type of trigger--having built 3 dozen or so AR's of different flavors I already know what I like--and it does vary from weapon to weapon--there is no "one-size-fits-all" IMO--but I am very interested in what others have to say as to what makes a good trigger FOR THEM IN THEIR OPINION, and most specifically why.
I do appreciate your perspective and comments.
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July 13, 2018, 02:35 PM | #47 | |
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July 13, 2018, 02:42 PM | #48 | |
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