Remington 31 unclear

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:15 PM

I know this is probably a beat down subject but, after reading for hours I still cannot figure out the grade of this 31. I cannot see the markings that I have been told that I should see according to many forums. All I know as of right know is that it is a model 31 that is engraved on both sides of the receiver and stock with what looks like factory themes. The only problem with the engravings is that there is no initials on the bottom of the receiver. From reading forums they are supposed to be there, correct? On the left side of the receiver "Remington model and serial" are not visible because of the engravings. I do know the serial because of the trigger group and the barrel. Date code on the "numbers matching" barrel, which is a mod choke, is not clear gun1.jpg(PTT maybe but that does not make sense. The other barrel, which is imp cyl, is XJ. That one I know.)

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:16 PM

gun 2.jpg

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:17 PM

gun 3.jpg

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:18 PM

image(1).jpg

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:19 PM

image.jpg

engineerr1 · April 13, 2016, 12:20 PM

image(2).jpg

James K · April 13, 2016, 12:31 PM

I can't really tell much about the engraving from those pictures, but I can tell you one thing. NO, and I repeat NO, factory engraver will eliminate or obscure the factory markings or the serial number. Period.

I don't think that gun came from the factory with either the engraving or the fancy stock; it looks like a gunsmith job. The engraving is pretty good, but not first rate. I think you have a gun that was bought as a standard gun and someone with money had it customized and engraved to his tastes.

A more serious problem is that by obliterating the serial number he violated federal law and it is a violation of federal law to POSSESS a firearm with the serial number removed or altered.

Jim

**44 AMP** · April 13, 2016, 09:09 PM

I agree with JamesK on this one. NOT A FACTORY ENGRAVING job.

Gunsmiths (and engravers) CAN remove AND REAPPLY the serial number in a different location. I am unsure what documentation if an is required, but I know they can, and do, do it. HOWEVER, if the original serial number is NOT somewhere else on the gun, then the law HAS been violated, and you are in violation for merely possessing such an arm.

The law doesn't care if the ser# is "defaced" or "obscured" because it was filed off by a thug or engraved over by a master, or a gifted amateur.

engineerr1 · April 14, 2016, 04:18 PM

Well that sucks, but I DO have the #'s on the barrel and trigger group. I didn't know if there was some loophole that may exclude the receiver because it is a pre-1968 gun. (1948) Almost every fully engraved Remington 31 I have seen has not had the #'s, but could have just not seen them. Thanks anyway though.

**44 AMP** · April 15, 2016, 01:22 AM

The law is pretty clear, though somewhat senseless in its prohibition.

Guns made after 1968 are required to have a serial number.

Guns made before 68 which never had a serial number (a common practice on budget shotguns and .22s and some CF rifles) are not required to have a serial number added to them.

Guns made before 68 (and all guns made after) that had a serial number cannot have the serial number "altered or defaced". IF they do, they are prohibited to own. Period.

No matter when the guns was made, or when the serial # was removed, defaced, etc. the current possessor of the arm is guilty under the law.

In other words, no matter who, when, or why, if you have a gun that once had a factory serial number and now does not, YOU are in violation of the law.

The law does NOT require the serial number to be on the frame, or receiver. The serial numbered part is the gun under the law, and its usually the frame or receiver, but there are exceptions.

April 13, 2016, 12:15 PM	#1
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	Remington 31 unclear I know this is probably a beat down subject but, after reading for hours I still cannot figure out the grade of this 31. I cannot see the markings that I have been told that I should see according to many forums. All I know as of right know is that it is a model 31 that is engraved on both sides of the receiver and stock with what looks like factory themes. The only problem with the engravings is that there is no initials on the bottom of the receiver. From reading forums they are supposed to be there, correct? On the left side of the receiver "Remington model and serial" are not visible because of the engravings. I do know the serial because of the trigger group and the barrel. Date code on the "numbers matching" barrel, which is a mod choke, is not clear gun1.jpg(PTT maybe but that does not make sense. The other barrel, which is imp cyl, is XJ. That one I know.)

April 13, 2016, 09:09 PM	#8
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	I agree with JamesK on this one. NOT A FACTORY ENGRAVING job. Gunsmiths (and engravers) CAN remove AND REAPPLY the serial number in a different location. I am unsure what documentation if an is required, but I know they can, and do, do it. HOWEVER, if the original serial number is NOT somewhere else on the gun, then the law HAS been violated, and you are in violation for merely possessing such an arm. The law doesn't care if the ser# is "defaced" or "obscured" because it was filed off by a thug or engraved over by a master, or a gifted amateur. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 15, 2016, 01:22 AM	#10
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,820	The law is pretty clear, though somewhat senseless in its prohibition. Guns made after 1968 are required to have a serial number. Guns made before 68 which never had a serial number (a common practice on budget shotguns and .22s and some CF rifles) are not required to have a serial number added to them. Guns made before 68 (and all guns made after) that had a serial number cannot have the serial number "altered or defaced". IF they do, they are prohibited to own. Period. No matter when the guns was made, or when the serial # was removed, defaced, etc. the current possessor of the arm is guilty under the law. In other words, no matter who, when, or why, if you have a gun that once had a factory serial number and now does not, YOU are in violation of the law. The law does NOT require the serial number to be on the frame, or receiver. The serial numbered part is the gun under the law, and its usually the frame or receiver, but there are exceptions. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 13, 2016, 12:16 PM	#2
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	gun 2.jpg

April 13, 2016, 12:17 PM	#3
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	gun 3.jpg

April 13, 2016, 12:18 PM	#4
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	image(1).jpg

April 13, 2016, 12:19 PM	#5
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	image.jpg

April 13, 2016, 12:20 PM	#6
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	image(2).jpg

April 13, 2016, 12:31 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I can't really tell much about the engraving from those pictures, but I can tell you one thing. NO, and I repeat NO, factory engraver will eliminate or obscure the factory markings or the serial number. Period. I don't think that gun came from the factory with either the engraving or the fancy stock; it looks like a gunsmith job. The engraving is pretty good, but not first rate. I think you have a gun that was bought as a standard gun and someone with money had it customized and engraved to his tastes. A more serious problem is that by obliterating the serial number he violated federal law and it is a violation of federal law to POSSESS a firearm with the serial number removed or altered. Jim

April 14, 2016, 04:18 PM	#9
engineerr1 Junior Member Join Date: April 10, 2016 Posts: 7	Well that sucks, but I DO have the #'s on the barrel and trigger group. I didn't know if there was some loophole that may exclude the receiver because it is a pre-1968 gun. (1948) Almost every fully engraved Remington 31 I have seen has not had the #'s, but could have just not seen them. Thanks anyway though.