Thoughts on 260 Remington?

[MarkCO]

.260 is pretty straight forward.

[Pathfinder45]

If you could breed a 250 Savage with a 270 Winchester and get three offspring, they would be 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Remington, and 6.5 Swede. All with less recoil than the 270, yet more power than the 250. With about the same power level as the 25-06, but with better bullet selection to choose from, it's the 25-06 that could be endangered, not the 270.

[Don Fischer]

Originally Posted by MarkCO

My first, and favorite Precision rig is a .260 Rem. Started as a 24" bull barrel and is currently 22" (Set-back a few times). I have shot Mule Deer and Pronghorn out to 1K with it. While it is better cartridge than the 6.5CM for bolt guns, the marketing hype makes the CM more popular. I have been using 120 and 130 grain bullets for hunting and 140, 142 and 150 grain bullets for targets.

400 yards is a cake walk for the .260Rem.

Just wondering, what would make the 260 a better cartridge than the Creedmoor? This is pretty close to saying the 7.62x06 is better than the 30-06! I'd go with the 260 but not because it's any better. Just seem's easier to find brass I can make 260's with. I've read that you can make Creedmoor's with the same brass, I don't know but I do know about the 260!

I think that if I was to get a 260, I'd have another rifle re-barreled for it. The stamp on the barrel would read, 263 Express! Probably take sale's from the 260 and the creedmoor!

[MarkCO]

In a bolt gun, you get a little more velocity with the .260.

[Dufus]

A little more velocity but not enough to make that much difference.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by Dufus

A little more velocity but not enough to make that much difference.

Correct.

[Don Fischer]

Pretty common knowledge that shooting a deer at 500yds with a 130gr bullet from a 260, will kill the deer very dead. The same bullet at the same deer placed the same at 500yds from the 6.5Creedmoor will bounce off!

[44 AMP]

The performance standard is the 6.5x55mm Swede.

The .260Rem delivers Swede performance levels in a shorter case. This is because the .260 pressure is much higher than the Swede.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a .308 case, very slightly shortened, and with the shoulder set back, optimized for use in AR-10 class rifles.

Both cases have about the same powder capacity. Both deliver approximately the same velocities.

As far as I can see, the 6.5Creedmoor does have a slight advantage with certain bullets, but ONLY if you are running it from an AR type rifle. Shooting a bolt gun, the .260Rem has the edge, (for handloaders).

For those limited to factory ammo, the .260Rem is yet another of Remington's dunderhead blunders in rifle ammo. They don't load heavy bullets as factory ammo and their rifles have twists best suited to the lighter bullets (120gr etc.)

Almost the same thing that sank the .244Rem, all over again, though not quite as bad.

Go read what Wikipedia says about both. I don't place 100% faith in Wiki's accuracy about all things, but they do get some things right, and even if they don't, its a decent place to start.

If you aren't joined at the hip to the AR rifle, and you handload, the nod goes to the .260 Rem. You can get more out of it.

If you are an AR guy, and don't handload, the 6.5mm Creedmoor is the probably better choice, though to my mind, not by much.

6.5mm Creedmoor is the "flavor de jour" and has a HUGE marketing push behind it. The .260Rem doesn't have that kind of marketing support.

[gw44]

I have a 6.5x284 norma so I did not jump on the 6.5 creedmoor bandwagon, the 260 never got the press it should have, more like here it is what do ya think !!!

[Wyosmith]

I have made a LOT of rifles in the various .264" size. My own 6.5X54 Mann/Scho is one of my own creations, but it's the only one I ever made in that cartridge. I have made a LOT of 6.5X55s, a large number of 260s, about a Dz 6.5X284s, a few 264 Win Mags, a few 6.5-06s and done a few re-barrels on 6.5 Jap Arasakas.

The Creedmoor is too new and as yet, I have not been asked to make one. I doubt I will. The reason is that all you can want in a 6.5CM is available as a factory rifle, so I see little demand for it in a custom rifle anytime soon.
Of all the 6.5s I know of the Swede is my personal favorite. The 260 is a close 2nd.
The Swede, the 260 and the CM are all basically the same bullet at the same speed or close enough to not matter. Each one has a "calling" depending on what action you want to mate with that set of ballistics.

The Swede is the Gold Standard. It is all the CM or the 260 can be, and a slight bit more. It is the round to use in standard (and KAR length) surplus rifle actions for a fine custom rifle.

The 260 fits most 308 length "modern actions" and if you have just a bit of room in the front of the magazine, it allows for seating the very long bullets that are all the rage today.

The CM will allow for the use of those same long bullets, but will fit into a NATO length detachable magazine ie, M14/FAL/AR10 types. So the CM is the best choice in autos like the AR10, M1A and FAL, and in any rifle that uses the magazine for a military autorifle, like the Ruger Precision Rifle.

The 260 works well in lever actions like the Browning BLR, pump Remingtons and most 308 length modern bolt actions as well as the BAR auto loader.

The CM is the fad of today, but it's popularity is well deserved. It is however sometimes mated with actions that would be better barreled for the 260 Rem and that's because of marketing.

We are told the new CM is 'the most accurate" and it's not really. If the quality of the barrel is the same and the ammo is given the same care, the Swede, the 260 and the CM are all equal in accuracy.

If more velocity is desired I would go right to a 6.5-06 or even a 264 Win Mag. I reject the new 26 Nosler and most of the other 6.5 Super mags that have tried to gain traction in the market in the last 20-30 years because of the expense of brass, dies, chamber reamers and so on, and the fact that none of them do anything better when used on game then the 264 Mag and most don't beat the 6.5-06 enough to matter in the game fields.

I have made 6.5X284s and 260 Remingtons side by side and loaded them to the same pressure with the same barrel length and found the 6.5X284 also beats the 260 but by a small enough margin that I would never buy or build one for myself. If you have a 6.5X284 with a 24" barrel and a 260 with a 25 inch barrel they chronograph at the same speed with the same bulletss at the same pressures. (I have actually done this and I did it on a few occasions, so this is not a theory, it's a fact) That 1" is enough to make them a nose to nose tie, but I can make 260 brass out of free or cheap machine gun brass, and the 6.5X284 requires me to spend a lot of money on brass and also to modify the feed lips on most action to get it to feed smoothly. If you are paying a gunsmith you are better off with the 260 and telling your smith to go 1" longer on the tube. Not that there is anything wrong with the 6.5X284. There's not. But it come very close to the 6.5-06 and is just slightly ahead of the 260, and costs more to shoot and to build than either.

As a full time gunsmith and a former barrel maker I have run these experiments myself and I know what the guns really do. I have no dog in the fight, so I don't care what others shoot and I'll make what I am asked to make. I will even make the "dream wildcats" that customers sometimes come up with. If they want to pay the tooling and custom dies, I'll make anything they ask for ---------and I have from time to time.
But the truth is that most of what they believe they are getting is just a dream. In the cases of those shells that do give you an extra 100 FPS, the game in the field will not ever know the difference.

As a gunsmith I can own anything I want at the same price.

I own a 6.5X54 Mann/Scho. Why? ........because I like the 1903 Mannlicher action that feeds it.

If I were to want a 26 caliber hunting rifle made to a top level of quality as a general purpose and long range shooter, I'd still go with the 6.5 Swede over anything else, and make it on a Mauser action in preference to anything else.

So I know the question will be asked , Why not a ________? (fill in the blank with your favorite fast 26 caliber cartridge)

Answer:
I have a 270 Winchester. 3 of them in fact.

And if I want more than that, I have a 300 mag.

I DON'T WANT ANYTHING FASTER then either a 270 or a 300 mag. I have no use for them. I have owned lots of faster guns in the past and found them to be no more useful in the real world. They have no real advantage to a human being when you don't sit behind a bench rest, and they all had some disadvantages that I could not justify.
They are now all gone, sold, and I can't say I miss any of them.

But that's just me. Others may like 'faster' and I would not try to convince them not to have them.

My only goal is to report the real truth as a gunsmith and gun maker. If someone want a 416Rigby necked down to 7MM (yup,--- I did one) I'll make it, but I'll tell the customer the truth before I do the work. That way when he is faced with those disadvantages I can say "I told you so" and not have him blame me.

The truth is that the three best 26s, the Creedmoor, the Swede and the 260 are all excellent, and all so close to one another that the only thing to consider is what gun (action) you want to have, and choose the right shell to fit it to the best advantage.

[std7mag]

Not for nothing, but last Saturday i killed a lg doe at 413 yards with my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08. Used 140gr. Berger VLD Hunting. Bullet sized entry wound. Blood everywhere! She made it 20 yards before dropping. How she made it that far i don't know. Heart was in 2 pieces. Lungs destroyed.

[603Country]

Wyosmith really gave us some good information. That’s probably the best overview of the 6.5’s i’ve Seen to date, and obviously it’s from a very credible source. And I feel even better about my 260. I never would have bought one, but a buddy of mine was practically giving away a Ruger Compact in that caliber. I bought it for my wife, who had, so she said, a desire to shoot pigs. Well, she decided not to hunt, so I worked up some loads and used it myself. I had hunted for 30 years or so with a 270, and I was surprised that the 260 did about as well as the 270 did, and recoil was light. So I was with the program. Sold the compact and had a Tikka worked up just the way I wanted it. A super good shooter, light, short barrel, good scope. I have to make myself take the 270 to the woods, and I don’t do it much.

[Scorch]

6.5 creedmore is the flavor of the decade.

This pretty well sums it up. The folks in the 1930 and 40s had the 6.5X54 M-S, and even Hemingway wrote about it in some of his stories. In the 1950s, we had the 6.5X55 Swede and the 6.5x52 Japanese service cartridges that everyone swore were the best hing on the planet (some still sing this song). In the 1960s we found out that the 264 Win Mag was the bestest, most powerfulest and coolest cartridge on the planet. Oh, yeah, and the 6.5 Remington Mag, the other bestest coolest whatchamcallit. Hmmmm. In the 1970s, we discovered the 6.5-06, and it was billed as the most ideal cartridge anywhere in creation, with all the advantages of the 30-06 and 270 Win wrapped into one (I fell for this in the 1980s). The 260 was the belle of the ball in the 1990s. Then came the 6.5-284, and now it's all about the 6.5 Creedmore. And the Grendel. And the Valkyrie. And . . . but wait! Now there's the 6.5 SPC! Ho-hum. If the 6.5mm cartridges were in fact so great, they would have displaced everything else. Sure, they shoot flat, and they are great on paper. But if you already own a 308 or 30-06 or just about anything else, don't go out and sell it to buy a Creedmore.

[BBarn]

Some of the 6.5mm cartridges have been around a long time, but none of them were very popular in the US until fairly recently. The middle bores most people chose were 243, 270, 7mm Mag, and a few 30 cals. Several other good cartridges including the 25-06, 7mm-08, and 280/7mm Express were never as popular as those above. And the various 6.5/264s seemed even less popular.

Along with the newer 6.5s, the caliber has gained considerable popularity. Nothing wrong with the 6.5s. They are a very nice compromise. But magic they are not.

[Don Fischer]

Great post wyosmith! I have the 6.5x55 and the 6.5x06. the Sweed is a facroty Win Feather weight, the 6.5x06 a Rem 700. Had a 6.5x55 barrel put on a Parker hale 1200 action for the ex, 23" barrel. My 6.5x06 has a 25" barrel. the Sweed is right on the 6.5x06's tail. Modern actions really make the Sweed! Draw back for some, One on the Sweed is the need for a long action. Put a 2-7x Redfield on mine and needed extension rings to make it fir and then there's not a lot of room to move the scope forward and back!

I don't think there's any comparing a 6.5 to a 24 or 25 cal rifle. Reason being bullet's. I can get up to 140gr bullet's in 6.5 at the local Sportsman's Warehouse. Bet you can't get anywhere near that in a 24 or 25 cal rifle, both of which I have!

[44 AMP]

Draw back for some, One on the Sweed is the need for a long action.

While I realize that anything longer than a "short" action may be called long, there is a possible point of confusion here.

The Swede fits in a STANDARD length action. (.30-06/8mm Mauser length) It is longer than the short action, but is NOT the "long" action needed for H&H magnums. (also known as the magnum mauser action)

If a rifle maker offers only two action lengths, they are invariably referred to as "short" and "long". If they make 3 lengths, then its short, standard, and long, or sometimes, short, standard and magnum lengths.

[doofus47]

I have a 260 Rem. in a Savage 11 with a 22" barrel that I love. I bought it as an antelope stopper. I've done that, but I'm starting to think that it has more overlap with my 30-06 than I initially gave it credit for.
I plan to use it for deer and maybe for cow elk if I can work up a 140 grain load that she likes.

It's soft and accurate and seems to kill stuff dead.

6.5 CM grabs all the headlines nowadays, but 260Rem is a well-rounded cartridge as well.

[ThomasT]

Hunters discovered that the round when loaded with 140 gr and heavier bullets was far more effective than 260 with 120-130 gr bullets and it has really taken off.

Its sort of funny that light weight bullets are what everyone wants to shoot because all they are concerned with is velocity. I have a book called "The Selected Works Of Finn Aagaard" and he has a couple of chapters on the 6.5 cartridges. There were several in use around the turn of the last century. It was a popular bore size for the armies then switching to smokeless powder rounds.

The early rounds all used bullets in the 150-160gr range. They gave deep penetration and were even used on Elephant. A 120gr bullet would not be a good choice for that animal. The heavy bullets gave deep, straight penetration and most of those African hunters preferred the FMJ bullets to prevent bullet break up. Something they really wanted to avoid. The early 6.5s also only shot around 2300fps. But most of the shots they took were 200 yards or less. I guess they were better at being hunters and didn't consider longer shots. Plus most all the rifles were open sighted. Those heavy bullets made the reputation of the 6.5 bore.

I have a Remington model 7 in 7-08 and have went back to 150gr bullets. I had it loaded with 120gr bullets for a young girl to use so the recoil was lighter. Really no more than a 243. But I feel better with the heavier, tougher bullets even though she did drop 4 deer with 4 shots. One bullet was recovered and all that was left was a small disc from the base. The rest were pass through's with half dollar size exit wounds.

[reynolds357]

Wyosmith, I am partial to the 6.5x284 Norma. Why you testing a 24"? Its neutered at 24. W6 is where it shines. I have one with a 30" barrel, It screams. In 26 " barrels, the 6.5x284 Norma beats the w64 Win Mag in some bullet weights.

[eastbank]

I bought a rem sps in .260 with a 1-8 twist and 24" barrel for around 500.00 new and its a light accuret rifle. eastbank.

[Don Fischer]

i
I can't imagine carrying around a rifle hunting with a 30" barrel!

[Wyosmith]

I can.
Even a 44 inch barrel.

09 Church Rifle 002 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr
Copy of Christmas Tree 03 by Steve Zihn, on Flickr

[ThomasT]

Wyosmith you beat me to it. Pretty rifles.

Finn Aagaard wrote about his dad using a 7x57 military rifle with a 29" barrel. Didn't seem to bother him. It was the only rifle he owned.

[Dranrab]

For handloaders loading for modern Rifles, the Swede has a decided advantage over the Creed and a slight advantage over the 260. Norma is now making factory ammo to the pressures modern Swedes can handle and it outperforms the Creed and the 260.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/case_capacity_matters.html

[dvdcrr]

So 22" or 24" in 260? Serious about max point blank range for open country, but also serious about not having unweildy long rifles.