9mm vs. .357 magnum-Myth Busted

[dpadams6]

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

That's really not at issue here. The issue is that handguns are less effective than long arms in stopping people rapidly.

What does that have to do with self defense?

Did you read the quote i was responding to?

[OldMarksman]

Did you read the quote i was responding to?

Yes, and that note was rather inane.

My point that killing and lethality are not proper objectives of self defense, so the number of people killed is moot.

[Nanuk]

My point that killing and lethality are not proper objectives of self defense, so the number of people killed is moot. is moot.

BINGO!

[Nanuk]

I would argue that dead "faster" would qualify as more lethal.

I believe that one of the old west gunfighters aluded too when asked why he carried a 44-40 instead of a 36 navy. The 36 killed em, just not fast enough.

[Nanuk]

KE doesn't matter at handgun velocity generalization:
Very likely that differences in caliber and bullet type aside most people shot by police and civilians alike are with handgun bullets generating less than 400# KE including 9mm, 40, 45 and it is possible that less than 400# KE doesn't result in obvious or meaningful temporary cavity effect.

I've seen 2,000 fps cited as the velocity at which damage from the temporary cavity isn't so temporary, starts to matter. I am skeptical that there is zero difference below the 2,000 fps threshold. Makes more sense that it might be zero effect at 1,000 fps, (350# KE) but some difference at 1,300 fps (500-600# KE) increasing with velocity (KE) up to 2,000 fps where apparently the effect is wow. (deer lungs turned into pulp)

Less commonly used carry calibers capable of generating 500+# KE are 357 Sig and 10mm.
Temporary cavity effect in gel is dismissed by "KE don't matter" people because gel is not tissue, accurate statement.
Find an example where someone took the time to take pics of a deer they shot with 10mm and the reply is "just one deer" or damage bigger than the bullet on entry is not the same as lungs, need to see the lungs. (actual replies)

I like deer meat and I've bowkilled a couple dozen.
Gun season opens soon and I'm taking a Delta Elite 10mm, not a bow.
Bullet is 155 XTP @ 1,400 fps (my chrono average) generating 675# KE at muzzle.
According to ballistics calculator that will have about 1,330 fps /608# KE at 18 yards, anticipated distance at which hopefully a deer will be shot.
If successful, I will see for myself whether 600# KE produces any tissue damage beyond the diameter of the bullet (temporary cavity effect that aint so temporary).
If no, then parroted generalization of "KE don't matter at handgun velocity" accurate enough. However, if there is 1.5 inch of pulverized lung tissue from a bullet that only expands to .65 then the generalization is mythbusted and I will have pics for peer (layperson) review.
Subsequent generalization parroted on internet will have to include a disclaimer like "KE don't matter from commonly used handguns" cause it would not apply to someone carrying a Glock 20 or Delta Elite with ammo producing excess of 600# KE.

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15661

[Mal H]

This has gone on long enough. If anyone thinks the topic or a derivative of it needs further "discussion" then start a new thread on the specific topic.