My reloads are so low pressure my gun wont work...please help *Pix* - Page 3

Lavid2002 · June 23, 2009, 11:14 PM

I just reloaded the same experiment with 62 GRAIN bullets. Ill try that tomorrow, if it doesnt work. Ill measure internal capacity, and let you know. Also, if it doesn't work im going to order Small base dies, a feeler gauge, and a # or 2 of the powder you were talking about to try it out :P

**Unclenick** · June 23, 2009, 11:20 PM

If you're getting the SB die, you don't need the feeler gauge. That is more just a workaround if you have the gauge handy. Another method is to run the case into the die, count to five, withdraw it for another count of five, rotate it a half turn, then run it up in for another count of five. That, too, can knock a couple thousandths of additional headspace off. Indeed, I use three five second rests in the die with a stubborn case, but I pull the expander ball off for the first two so I don't overwork the neck brass. No sense in doing more annealing than necessary.

I've forgotten whether you tried neck annealing or not?

What loads and COL are you going to try with the heavier bullets? Varget will like it better.

Jim243 · June 24, 2009, 12:05 AM

David

Instead of beating youself up on all this reloading (it sounds like you have done everything right) take the rifle in to a gunsmith and have him check the gas block. From what I've read of your posts and the pictures everything looks good but you are not getting sufficient back pressure???? The X-SB FL resizing die should take care of your stuck case problems as long as you do not exceed 2.200 OAL or jam the bullet into the lands. Have them check that your chamber is 5.56 and not 5.56 modified (Whyle) or a .223 chamber.

5.56 and .223 cases have different sholders and are not interchangeable - you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56 but should not use a 5.56 in a .223.

It's time to look at the rifle and not your reloads. Have the gunsmith do a chamber casting of you rifle. Also do not use the cheap ammo in your gun since the coating on the metal cases flake and will jam the works up.

Jim

tkcomer · June 24, 2009, 08:03 AM

Remember guys, his gun fires fine with factory ammo. No problem with the gun. It's the reloads that are giving him fits. They won't chamber and are hard to extract. You can change bullets, powder charges, primers, etc, but that won't solve the problem. He has a size problem with his brass. Fix that and everything else will come together. I've seen this before. I'll admit, he may have a tight and/or rough chamber, but it fires factory rounds just fine. If he had problems with factory rounds, THEN I'd be looking at the gun.

Lavid2002 · June 24, 2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

David

Instead of beating youself up on all this reloading (it sounds like you have done everything right) take the rifle in to a gunsmith and have him check the gas block. From what I've read of your posts and the pictures everything looks good but you are not getting sufficient back pressure???? The X-SB FL resizing die should take care of your stuck case problems as long as you do not exceed 2.200 OAL or jam the bullet into the lands. Have them check that your chamber is 5.56 and not 5.56 modified (Whyle) or a .223 chamber.

5.56 and .223 cases have different sholders and are not interchangeable - you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56 but should not use a 5.56 in a .223.

It's time to look at the rifle and not your reloads. Have the gunsmith do a chamber casting of you rifle. Also do not use the cheap ammo in your gun since the coating on the metal cases flake and will jam the works up.

Jim

Its a 5.56 NATO chamber isnt it? Its a RRA mid-length carbine. It works fine with factory ammo why would I need to get it checked. P.S. I dont use cheap ammo, I hate wolf.

P.S. I want to make this clear so no one is confused...here are a few things I may not have mentioned

*My reloads chamber and extract fine BEFORE there shot with a clean chamber. But after 15 or 20 rounds the chamber is dirty and they no longer chamber.

*I use a .22 conversion kit in this gun sometimes..... big deal or no?

Ok That being said lets talk about my other loads...the ones I tried with 62 grain bullets.

My scale only goes up to 100 grains so I cant weight a full casing, HOWEVER my mom is a nurse and using a 1ml syringe I can tell you how much my casings can hold. 1.98ml to 1.97 ml of tap water. Heres a picture...

Still dirty....

Please note on this second picture, A small slice of brass is removed from the 5 head stamps on the left. I know when loads are extremely high pressure the head stamp begins to slide into the ejector and when the bolt rotates it slices some off...is this whats happening?. I doubt it but I wana be safe.

Edit: Im about to re-stock on ammunition, powder, etc... What should I buy in terms of powder, dies, etc... Thanks

-Dave

So Far I have RCBS Small base dies...What do I need for lube, and whats a good ball powder to buy? thanks :P

tkcomer · June 25, 2009, 06:37 AM

A lot of choices on ball powder. And a lot of arguments on what's the "best" powder to use. As for me, I use Winchester 748 and Ramshot's Tac. As far as lube goes, I still use the RCBS lube pad with their lube. I stick 10 cases on the pad, roll them, size them and into the tumbler. And for what it's worth, my cases come out with soot on them just like yours. Now that you have the small base die, load and go. If you still have problems with that die, it's on to other things to try. And I know it's frustrating. I just got a brand new DPMS LR-308B and I'm having a little trouble with it. And I haven't even got to try my reloads yet.

Lavid2002 · July 2, 2009, 08:51 PM

how will a small base die help me(my question mark button doesnt work)

my buddy, a police officer, picked me up some xm193 ammunition from the range, i used a caliper to measure different parts of the casing, and i compared them to parts of one of my reloaded casings both measure out to the same...hmmm

**Unclenick** · July 3, 2009, 12:46 PM

The small base die is tighter so the sized brass comes out slightly smaller, allowing easier fit.

rc · July 4, 2009, 12:46 AM

If you have cartridges that hit the rifling they are too long. You should have them a few thousands short of this length. I would say seat the bullets so just the top of the cannelure shows and you'll be just fine. You have most of the cannelure above the case mouth. Generally that's desinged to be crimped in the middle. When cartridges are too long, you will have seating into battery problem and extraction problems as the bullet will get stuck on the rifling. Other that that, your reloads look normal. rc

Lavid2002 · July 5, 2009, 09:40 PM

just ordered the small base die........shot standing at 100 yards today standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone wit some federal m193 ammo (FACTORY) it was so much fun.;....blew throug like 100 rounds no brass catcher not worrying about rifle malfunctions or FTFs lol shot pretty good. competition is on the 18th and hopefully this small base die fixes te problem so i can tear it up on the competition :P thanks

-dave

Gewehr98 · July 5, 2009, 10:07 PM

Same as my '93 Competition HBAR, which came from Colt with a tight chamber before I knew what precautions to take with such a critter. It chokes after as few as 200 rounds, forcing me to do a thorough chamber cleaning before it runs again.

My fired handloads and factory loads are just as sooty as the ones you pictured. I've run H-335, WW-748, and IMR-4895 in the gun, and the rounds are equally dirty. I've been debating buying small-base dies for it, seeing as I had to buy them for a tight-chambered '69 Browning BAR. Glad to know it worked for you, and your experience just enforces my next step with respect to my Colt. I want to move it out of the category of safe queen into shooter...

Lavid2002 · July 8, 2009, 08:44 PM

IT CAME IT CAME!

WOHOOOO........imna load up some cartridges tonight and give a report soon!

TEDDY · July 10, 2009, 11:33 AM

I followed this thread and I cant believe the solitions offered.he clearly stated the cartridg would NOT GO IN and hard coming out.clear evidence the case was not sized properly.and yet the posts went on for three pages comeon guys you can do better than that.

Lavid2002 · July 12, 2009, 03:28 PM

bang......bang.......bang.....shot 50 resized rounds wit no problems. popped in some of my OLD reloads and they guns up on the first magazine. Ill load up 100 rounds for the competition on the 18th and let you guys know how it goes :P

thanks!
-dave

PCJim · July 12, 2009, 10:29 PM

Glad to hear you finally figured out the solution. I'd contact Hornady and send those dies back for a re-do.

Lavid2002 · July 13, 2009, 04:03 AM

do you think they will take them even though its my fault....that would be like me ordering neck sizing dies for my ar15 and wanting a refund right

-dave

PCJim · July 13, 2009, 09:17 PM

Yep, you're right. It isn't Hornady's fault. Two options - hold on to them as you may find a use for them in the future with a different rifle, or sell them to another reloader who is having a hard time finding dies.

I've been absent and should have read more of the prior posts....

Lavid2002 · July 13, 2009, 11:10 PM

: P my buddy is considering getting a .223 bolt savage, ill hang onto them so e has a fl for new brass. I think I like the hornady seating die better too. I love the little thing that falls down.

Lavid2002 · July 14, 2009, 04:59 PM

Shot another 100 rounds or so today, 2 split necks and a few stovepipes, aside from that, ran good : P

Lavid2002 · July 18, 2009, 04:07 PM

Shot about 75 rounds in my local NRA high power competition. Placed 2cnd or 3rd out of about 5 guys : ) very happy rifle worked flawlessly (match only takes about 68 rds but I shot extra before it began...in the unlimited sighter portion : P thanks guys!

June 23, 2009, 11:14 PM	#51
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	I just reloaded the same experiment with 62 GRAIN bullets. Ill try that tomorrow, if it doesnt work. Ill measure internal capacity, and let you know. Also, if it doesn't work im going to order Small base dies, a feeler gauge, and a # or 2 of the powder you were talking about to try it out :P __________________ Math>Grammar

June 23, 2009, 11:20 PM	#52
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	If you're getting the SB die, you don't need the feeler gauge. That is more just a workaround if you have the gauge handy. Another method is to run the case into the die, count to five, withdraw it for another count of five, rotate it a half turn, then run it up in for another count of five. That, too, can knock a couple thousandths of additional headspace off. Indeed, I use three five second rests in the die with a stubborn case, but I pull the expander ball off for the first two so I don't overwork the neck brass. No sense in doing more annealing than necessary. I've forgotten whether you tried neck annealing or not? What loads and COL are you going to try with the heavier bullets? Varget will like it better. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 24, 2009, 12:05 AM	#53
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	David Instead of beating youself up on all this reloading (it sounds like you have done everything right) take the rifle in to a gunsmith and have him check the gas block. From what I've read of your posts and the pictures everything looks good but you are not getting sufficient back pressure???? The X-SB FL resizing die should take care of your stuck case problems as long as you do not exceed 2.200 OAL or jam the bullet into the lands. Have them check that your chamber is 5.56 and not 5.56 modified (Whyle) or a .223 chamber. 5.56 and .223 cases have different sholders and are not interchangeable - you can shoot a .223 in a 5.56 but should not use a 5.56 in a .223. It's time to look at the rifle and not your reloads. Have the gunsmith do a chamber casting of you rifle. Also do not use the cheap ammo in your gun since the coating on the metal cases flake and will jam the works up. Jim Last edited by Jim243; June 24, 2009 at 12:15 AM.

July 2, 2009, 08:51 PM	#57
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	how will a small base die help me(my question mark button doesnt work) my buddy, a police officer, picked me up some xm193 ammunition from the range, i used a caliper to measure different parts of the casing, and i compared them to parts of one of my reloaded casings both measure out to the same...hmmm __________________ Math>Grammar

July 3, 2009, 12:46 PM	#58
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The small base die is tighter so the sized brass comes out slightly smaller, allowing easier fit. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 24, 2009, 08:03 AM	#54
tkcomer Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Maysville, KY Posts: 200	Remember guys, his gun fires fine with factory ammo. No problem with the gun. It's the reloads that are giving him fits. They won't chamber and are hard to extract. You can change bullets, powder charges, primers, etc, but that won't solve the problem. He has a size problem with his brass. Fix that and everything else will come together. I've seen this before. I'll admit, he may have a tight and/or rough chamber, but it fires factory rounds just fine. If he had problems with factory rounds, THEN I'd be looking at the gun.

June 25, 2009, 06:37 AM	#56
tkcomer Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Maysville, KY Posts: 200	A lot of choices on ball powder. And a lot of arguments on what's the "best" powder to use. As for me, I use Winchester 748 and Ramshot's Tac. As far as lube goes, I still use the RCBS lube pad with their lube. I stick 10 cases on the pad, roll them, size them and into the tumbler. And for what it's worth, my cases come out with soot on them just like yours. Now that you have the small base die, load and go. If you still have problems with that die, it's on to other things to try. And I know it's frustrating. I just got a brand new DPMS LR-308B and I'm having a little trouble with it. And I haven't even got to try my reloads yet.

July 4, 2009, 12:46 AM	#59
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,767	Look for engraving If you have cartridges that hit the rifling they are too long. You should have them a few thousands short of this length. I would say seat the bullets so just the top of the cannelure shows and you'll be just fine. You have most of the cannelure above the case mouth. Generally that's desinged to be crimped in the middle. When cartridges are too long, you will have seating into battery problem and extraction problems as the bullet will get stuck on the rifling. Other that that, your reloads look normal. rc

July 5, 2009, 09:40 PM	#60
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	just ordered the small base die........shot standing at 100 yards today standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone wit some federal m193 ammo (FACTORY) it was so much fun.;....blew throug like 100 rounds no brass catcher not worrying about rifle malfunctions or FTFs lol shot pretty good. competition is on the 18th and hopefully this small base die fixes te problem so i can tear it up on the competition :P thanks -dave __________________ Math>Grammar

July 5, 2009, 10:07 PM	#61
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Tight chamber, then. Same as my '93 Competition HBAR, which came from Colt with a tight chamber before I knew what precautions to take with such a critter. It chokes after as few as 200 rounds, forcing me to do a thorough chamber cleaning before it runs again. My fired handloads and factory loads are just as sooty as the ones you pictured. I've run H-335, WW-748, and IMR-4895 in the gun, and the rounds are equally dirty. I've been debating buying small-base dies for it, seeing as I had to buy them for a tight-chambered '69 Browning BAR. Glad to know it worked for you, and your experience just enforces my next step with respect to my Colt. I want to move it out of the category of safe queen into shooter... __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

July 8, 2009, 08:44 PM	#62
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	IT CAME IT CAME! WOHOOOO........imna load up some cartridges tonight and give a report soon! __________________ Math>Grammar

July 10, 2009, 11:33 AM	#63
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	jam I followed this thread and I cant believe the solitions offered.he clearly stated the cartridg would NOT GO IN and hard coming out.clear evidence the case was not sized properly.and yet the posts went on for three pages comeon guys you can do better than that.

July 12, 2009, 03:28 PM	#64
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	bang......bang.......bang.....shot 50 resized rounds wit no problems. popped in some of my OLD reloads and they guns up on the first magazine. Ill load up 100 rounds for the competition on the 18th and let you guys know how it goes :P thanks! -dave __________________ Math>Grammar

July 12, 2009, 10:29 PM	#65
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Glad to hear you finally figured out the solution. I'd contact Hornady and send those dies back for a re-do.

July 13, 2009, 04:03 AM	#66
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	do you think they will take them even though its my fault....that would be like me ordering neck sizing dies for my ar15 and wanting a refund right -dave __________________ Math>Grammar

July 13, 2009, 09:17 PM	#67
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Yep, you're right. It isn't Hornady's fault. Two options - hold on to them as you may find a use for them in the future with a different rifle, or sell them to another reloader who is having a hard time finding dies. I've been absent and should have read more of the prior posts....

July 13, 2009, 11:10 PM	#68
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	: P my buddy is considering getting a .223 bolt savage, ill hang onto them so e has a fl for new brass. I think I like the hornady seating die better too. I love the little thing that falls down. __________________ Math>Grammar

July 14, 2009, 04:59 PM	#69
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	Shot another 100 rounds or so today, 2 split necks and a few stovepipes, aside from that, ran good : P __________________ Math>Grammar

July 18, 2009, 04:07 PM	#70
Lavid2002 Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2007 Posts: 2,568	Shot about 75 rounds in my local NRA high power competition. Placed 2cnd or 3rd out of about 5 guys : ) very happy rifle worked flawlessly (match only takes about 68 rds but I shot extra before it began...in the unlimited sighter portion : P thanks guys! __________________ Math>Grammar