Case trimming help needed

[ReloadKy]

I need some help figuring out a problem. I use the Lyman Ezee trim system with the interchangeable pilots to trim my cases. I reload several different rifle calibers. When I trim my 270 cases I run into issues. The brass doesn’t fit onto the pilots correctly. It is so tight that often the brass will get stuck on the trimmer as I am trimming. I will then use my bullet puller to knock the pilot out of the brass. It has to be something with my resizing die. I have broken several pilots trying to get brass off once it is stuck so it isn’t the pilot. The other calibers that I reload for I have not had this problem. What am I missing here??

[condor bravo]

Since the problem is with several pilots, the pilot size must be OK at .273, thereby making the sizing die suspect. It could then be that the expander button in the die is undersize resulting in a tight neck after sizing. If so, that could be further confirmed if bullets seem to require extreme force for bullet seating. Then perhaps a new expander stem and button would cure the problem. Measure the expander button to further confirm that possibility. My guess is that it should be around .275. If below .273 the expander is probably the culprit.

[RC20]

I am fond of the M dies to expand a case right and it works far better than in the sizer button things (those have all been milled down or removed and no longer any affect)

If you do enough trimming I would strongly suggest a Gerard Tri Trimmer. Chucks up in a drill, if you have a vice you can put the drill in the vice an gently clamp it in and you are fully automated. I can do 300 in 10 or 15 minutes. Its an off the shoulder index system which should odd but it works gangbusters.

http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-tri-way-trimmer.html

If you have more than 4 calibers, then the fully motorized Gerard setup saves money as the heads for those are lower cost than a whole Tri Trimmer. I think the motorized unit is $460 with one head and more heads are $30.

http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm

The Trim Trimmer is around $100.

[Mobuck]

Maybe you have the dreaded "neck donut".
These 270 cases are factory made? Loaded how many times?

[Rangerrich99]

This may or may not help you out.

Late last year I had a very similar problem with trimming some .223 rem cases. These were cases that I'd reloaded 4 times, using the same pilot as always with no issues. But suddenly these cases were getting stuck on the pilot. What I found by accident was that I'd set my de-primer/expander ball a little too low somehow. Also the die itself was set incorrectly. When I readjusted it a bit higher in the die and reset the die the problem went away.

[sako2]

try trimming the a couple turns then back them off the pilot then trim some more. likely their getting stuck on burrs. is the cutting head sharp

[ReloadKy]

I have the carbide cutting head and it is sharp. The die I am using is RCBS full length sizing die. The brass I am trimming is mostly once fired brass.

[F. Guffey]

I need some help figuring out a problem. I use the Lyman Ezee trim system with the interchangeable pilots to trim my cases. I reload several different rifle calibers. When I trim my 270 cases I run into issues.

Before the Internet some trimmers came with pilots that fit the neck of the fired case, when that happened reloaders would trim before sizing. And then there were trimmers that did not use pilots, my favorite trimmer does not use pilots because they are trim/form dies meaning the reloader has a choice.

I do not get into mortal combat with the pilot when trimming, if it wants to keep the case I trim before sizing.

F. Guffey

[Nathan]

Measure your pilot. If it is .277 or bigger, it is meant to trim fired brass.

If you want to trim sized brass, cut it down to .275 with a drill and sandpaper get it to .276 with 180-220; .2755 with 320-400; .2752" with 400-600; finish with Flitz or other buffing compound to .275 or when you give up.

That should fix you up fora few bucks.

[stagpanther]

I use the same trimmer--simple but works great. My guess is that you probably have an asymetry between the shell holder and pilot holder. Can the pilot fit the case neck when just pushed in without being attached? (be careful not to go too far in?) what I usually do is tighten the shell holder gradually as I push the pilot in. Sorta like , uhhhh better not make that analogy.

[Don Fischer]

Real possibility. Also could be the cuter is causing it. I've had that happen with my RCBS trimmer and fixed the problem by lubing the pilot with some of that Hornady white stuff on a Q-tip!

[T. O'Heir]

Trim 'em before you resize. There's no need to fiddle with factory made tools to make 'em fit. It's the case that needs to fit the tool.
And don't forget to chamfer and deburr the case mouth.

[ReloadKy]

Great suggestions, thanks to all.

[Unclenick]

The problem with trimming before you resize is that resizing is what grows the case.

If the dreaded internal donut is involved, the sticking won't happen until the pilot reaches the bottom of the neck.

[RC20]

Trim 'em before you resize. There's no need to fiddle with factory made tools to make 'em fit. It's the case that needs to fit the tool.
And don't forget to chamfer and deburr the case mouth.

That is totally wrong. Its at its shooting length after you resize. You trim after sizing, not before.

I would suggest reading some reloading books before venturing into giving anyone an opinion.

[condor bravo]

Deburr the outside of the case necks after trimming, but if a flare is needed, use a Lyman M die for that purpose rather than chamfering which leaves close to a knife edge ridge around the case mouth. Retain the square case mouth after trimming rather than chamferring and boat tail bullets can be used to aid bullet seating if necessary.

[RC20]

The Tri Trimmer does the trim, chamfer, deburr.

More chamfer than deburr, I don't have an issues with cases mouths being sharp.

WFT from Little Crow is a nice tool as well but only trims.

If you don't like the chamfer and deburr process its a good one to go with. Less costly by $20 or so as well.

Once you have tried either one you won't go back.

[locknloader]

Tri-Timmer is where its at, buy once cry once. It cuts down so many steps the extra expense is worth it. I can crank through 223 cases very fast with this tool.

[F. Guffey]

That is totally wrong. Its at its shooting length after you resize. You trim after sizing, not before.

I would suggest reading some reloading books before venturing into giving anyone an opinion.

As I have told you before it must be tuff waking up in a new world everyday when starting over.

Again, when forming cases the case is trimmed when formed and then sized. I have verified all of my trim/form dies. And then there is the Wilson case gage, I have verified my Wilson case gages. When determining if the case requires trimming most reloaders get overload because they measure from the end of the neck to the case head.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Tri-Timmer is where its at, buy once cry once. It cuts down so many steps the extra expense is worth it. I can crank through 223 cases very fast with this tool.

I purchased the RCBS case prep center and never regretted.

F. Guffey

[stagpanther]

It's a jungle out there between the case mouth and rim.

(sorry, couldn't help myself)

[Don Fischer]

Uncle Nick couldn't be more right. sizing stretch's the case more than anything!

[NWPilgrim]

Originally Posted by Don Fischer

Uncle Nick couldn't be more right. sizing stretch's the case more than anything!

Ditto. Resize THEN trim. When the size die squishes the case diameter down to spec it forces brass to move up, thus lengthening the case. Listen to UncleNick. And read a manual.

[F. Guffey]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Fischer View Post
Uncle Nick couldn't be more right. sizing stretch's the case more than anything!



Ditto. Resize THEN trim. When the size die squishes the case diameter down to spec it forces brass to move up, thus lengthening the case. Listen to UncleNick. And read a manual.

I do not expect an answer but reloaders on all forums insist they can bump the shoulder back and then they do not understand the neck of the case is connected to the shoulder of the case at the shoulder/neck juncture so if they are able to move the shoulder back the neck comes with it.

I did not expect anyone to understand the Wilson case. The Wilson case gage is a datum based tool. The Wilson case gage was not designed for reloaders that that have no clue how long the chamber is from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. For the 500ith time I have a 30/06 chamber that is .016" longer from the shoulder to the bolt face than a minimum length sized case. I know I am wasting my time because of the limited audience. What is a minimum length sized case? How much longer is a chamber that is .016" longer than a go-gage length chamber?

So there was a big argument I was not aware of but one of the individuals involved had a mill for sale, I drove over and purchased the mill; and then I got involved. The disagreement was complicated by go-gages, the man I purchased the mill from had 20+ 30/06 head space gages that went from go to beyond. He also had the old head space gages that measured from the case body/shoulder juncture to the case head. I explained to him it did not matter, I could measure the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face with any gage he had and I could modify his go gages to measure from go to infinity, to make his life simpler I decided to go without the a go-gage.

With factor new over the counter R-P Green Box 30/06 ammo he had .0075" clearance, that would be just over half way between a go-gage and a no go-gage length chamber.

And then it really got complicated because I have 35 bolts that would fit his receiver and he had 100+; between us we did not have a bolt that would correct the length of the chamber.

Who does not have fired 30/06 that are longer from the shoulder to the case head by .0075"? Had we gone looking I do believe we could have found 10.000 30/06 cases that could be sized to fit his chamber. Problem: He wanted a go-gage length chamber.

I did not ask him about measuring the length of the case from the mouth of the case to the case head. His chamber was .0025 longer than a go gage length chamber; when trimming what is a reloader to do with the .0025" or when trimming cases for my long chamber what am I to do with the .016" difference in length between my chamber and cases?

F. Guffey

[stagpanther]

what am I to do with the .016" difference in length between my chamber and cases?

Did you try using some loktite?