Looking for real world 9mm revolver ballistics

fallingrock71 · March 10, 2018, 08:15 AM

I just picked up an LCR in 9mm because...well you always need another gun and it's only money right?

As expected, I haven't found much in the way of 9mm ballistics FIRED FROM A REVOLVER.

I'd really appreciate any links, personal info, pics, thoughts, haikus etc. on the matter. Ballistics from an LCR in 9mm would be awesome, but ballistics from any auto caliber fired from a revolver would be very interesting to me as well. Hey I'm weird like that!

BTW yes I am well aware of crimp jump and will watch for that

Help a brutha out?

Johny Smith · March 10, 2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallingrock71

BTW yes I am well aware of crimp jump and will watch for that

Crimp jump is the least of your worries with that rig, 'total bullet' separation is a real concern. I'm rocking the .357 version and have been tempted in the past to go the 9mm. For the quicker reloads and when I do some math and punch in some numbers on a KO calculator the ballistics on that are not that far behind the .357 with almost 3x less recoil.

Oh yeah brother and a 9mm is a whole lot better than a .38 special.

Think about this for a minute. The 9mm was on the market over 30 years before the .357 magnum came on the scene and yet it rocks the same standard pressure of 35,000. Notice the weight, it's even .1 heavier than the .357 version.

But it's a risk firing a round that was meat for auto loaders with hardly any crimp on it and especially in a lite weight revolver.
Good luck and really check your carry ammo out every 5th round until you feel comfortable.

fallingrock71 · March 10, 2018, 02:30 PM

I don't plan on carrying this revolver anytime soon. I have several other thoroughly tested options for that. I bought the LCR in 9mm largely out of curiosity. It does look good for carry on paper I must admit. IF it checks out, then I MIGHT carry it. That's a long ways down the road though.

Thanks for the reply. More importantly, thanks for looking out! appreciate ya

James K · March 10, 2018, 03:16 PM

A common "rule of thumb" is to take the velocity from a solid (e.g., auto pistol) barrel and reduce it 20-50 fps for a revolver barrel of the same length. The variation is because the barrel/cylinder gap itself varies, allowing a variation in gas escape.

For practical purposes, and with a good (not worn out) revolver, there would be little significant difference in velocity due to the b/c gap. In other words, the 9mm will not be "awesome"; it will be equivalent to a HV .38 Special so, as others have found out, there is no real advantage in firing the 9mm in a revolver unless there are other factors (like free ammo from the military), and a serious disadvantage in tricky and possibly problematic extraction.

Jim

Screwball · March 10, 2018, 03:36 PM

For ballistics, I would look at reviews for the 9mm LCR. If you find an older S&W 940 review, might have some info... but likely dated. They also just came back out with the SP-101 in 9mm, so I’d look for articles on that.

I used to have my comparison data for my J-frame... .38 +P verses 9mm (standard pressure) out of the same gun, but seems to have gone into the black hole after redoing a good chunk of the house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallingrock71

BTW yes I am well aware of crimp jump and will watch for that

For a five shot revolver, the round really just needs to survive four shots before jumping the crimp. Some people want more, but if you test a few rounds by shooting four and checking the bullet, really you should be good.

I did that for my main range ammo, UMC 115 grain bulk. For my carry ammo, I decided to try to push it. Hornady XTP 147 grain did not show any signs of jump over three cylinders (so, 12 shots) in my converted S&W 642-1 (a lot lighter than a 9mm LCR, so should be even more likely to jump).

If you want a guarantee for the bullet not to move, Hornady is a safe bet due to how they do their crimps. I’m sure larger names (Federal, Speer) are good... but I’d just try it out beforehand. I’ve yet to see any issue with 9mm Hornady out of my J-frame.

Laz · March 10, 2018, 06:14 PM

Years ago, I had a rather lengthy article from one of the well known gun writers of the day (maybe Dick Metcalf, maybe Wiley Clapp, I forget who) about just what you asked. He fired a number of 9mm semi autos with varying barrel lengths and compared the same ammo with several 9mm revolvers of varying barrel lengths, e.g. a Smith and Wesson 940 with a 1 7/8 barrel and a Ruger SP101 with 3 1/8 inch barrel. And other handguns I don’t remember. He argued that while there was indeed a small loss due to barrel/cylinder gap, it was largely offset by the fact that semi auto barrels are measured including the chamber and revolvers are not, i.e. a 3 inch barrelled revolver was essentially the same as a 4.5 inch semi auto. The ballistics he posted largely confirmed his point. I have seen other ballistics posted that agreed. I wish I could post a reference for you. In other words, the 3 inch SP101 showed velocities on a par with duty sized semi autos with 4-4.5 inch barrels and the little Smith was on a par with 3.5 inch compact autos.

Buckeye! · March 10, 2018, 06:39 PM

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...m-for.html?m=1

Here is a link ... Shows that a LCR 9 with a 1 7/8 inch barrel out performs a semi with a 3 inch barrel ...

fallingrock71 · March 10, 2018, 06:41 PM

Laz, I must have read the same or similar article years ago. I also seem to remember reading ballistics and or watching videos on the subject. Years ago I was simply curious about 9mm revolvers and started looking into them. I got distracted by 1911s, CZs, ARs, bolt guns, pellet guns, shotguns, motorcycles etc. A deal on this LCR just kinda fell in my lap. Now I'm going back to look at all the reasons why I convinced myself I "needed" it the first place. I'm just not finding it for some reason. I could have sworn I had read or had seen that you don't give up much in ballistics going to a 9mm in a revolver over an auto of similar or even longer barrels. I could have dreamed it or just imagineered it at the time to justify a purchase. Who knows, but now it's bugging me way more than it should! lol

fallingrock71 · March 10, 2018, 06:52 PM

Thanks Buckeye. That's along the lines of what I remembered reading years ago on the subject. Dangit, think i've talked myself into a chronograph too! stoopid gun habit

Buckeye! · March 10, 2018, 06:55 PM

I traded for a LCR 9 and traded even for a LCR 357 ... After seeing how well the 9mm SD projectiles function from short barrels .. I sorta wished I didn't trade ( live and learn )

From 115gr to 147gr .. Standard pressure, +P and +P+

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/

You can compare the 9mm to 38 +P , 357mag...

Bob Wright · March 10, 2018, 08:50 PM

Johny Smith said:

Quote:

Oh yeah brother and a 9mm is a whole lot better than a .38 special.

I sure don't want to start another brouhaha here, but I beg to differ with you there!

Bob Wright

Johny Smith · March 10, 2018, 09:52 PM

Never underestimate the 9mm a proud tradition since 1902.

The only reason I carry a .357 magnum is because the .38 special does not instill confidence with me. Range fonder perhaps, but I have dance the waltz with the .38 special and I always get rid of it.

Anything can do damage from a stick, a brick or a .22 but at the end of day some of us have to be realistic in out approach to self-defense, I myself have never been lucky nor am I a good shoot but if by chance I'm able to land one be it arm, leg or where ever I'd like the best possible odds I can get.

The 9mm has the very real possibility to go through an arm and into the main body from an off-shot perhaps down on your a-- or simply a side shot, whatever.

BrBa · March 11, 2018, 06:13 AM

Try a box of 147 Federal HST standard pressure. Your search for a SD load is tits mate.

luger fan · March 11, 2018, 10:07 AM

I own a 9mm wheelie. It's a good BUG to one of my 9mm bottom feeders.

WC145 · March 12, 2018, 06:39 PM

I chrono'd a few different 9mm loads through a Taurus 905IB and a S&W 360J that had been rechambered to 9mm back in 2009. The Taurus was the version with the shortened frame and cylinder. I don't think these loads have changed any since then.

WWB 115gr FMJ - 1096fps
Magtech 115gr FMJ - 1057fps
Federal 9BPLE 115gr JHP +P+ - 1174fps

The 360J averaged around 10% lower velocities. I attributed the differences to the shorter 9mm length cylinder in the Taurus and some gas loss with the rechambered cyl in the S&W.

As far as crimp jump, I've never had an issue with it and my 360J only weighs 13oz.

James K · March 13, 2018, 09:50 PM

It is not really worth the argument except for those who seek out points for arguing, but for practical purposes there is little difference between the 9mm P and the .38 Special, given the same bullet and barrel length. US developers concentrated on the revolver, while Europeans went to the auto pistol. But in spite of some rather tall tales on both sides, I doubt that anyone on the receiving end was ever able to tell the difference.

The current fad for 9mm revolvers has its origin in the change to 9mm by police in the US,, and the use of ammo obtained by the military and provided police by Uncle Sam at no or low cost, plus the desire by some police and others who still want to use a revolver yet keep uniformity of ammo.

Jim

March 10, 2018, 08:15 AM	#1
fallingrock71 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: OK Posts: 109	Looking for real world 9mm revolver ballistics I just picked up an LCR in 9mm because...well you always need another gun and it's only money right? As expected, I haven't found much in the way of 9mm ballistics FIRED FROM A REVOLVER. I'd really appreciate any links, personal info, pics, thoughts, haikus etc. on the matter. Ballistics from an LCR in 9mm would be awesome, but ballistics from any auto caliber fired from a revolver would be very interesting to me as well. Hey I'm weird like that! BTW yes I am well aware of crimp jump and will watch for that Help a brutha out? __________________ "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~Thomas Jefferson

March 10, 2018, 02:30 PM	#3
fallingrock71 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: OK Posts: 109	I don't plan on carrying this revolver anytime soon. I have several other thoroughly tested options for that. I bought the LCR in 9mm largely out of curiosity. It does look good for carry on paper I must admit. IF it checks out, then I MIGHT carry it. That's a long ways down the road though. Thanks for the reply. More importantly, thanks for looking out! appreciate ya __________________ "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~Thomas Jefferson

March 10, 2018, 06:14 PM	#6
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	Years ago, I had a rather lengthy article from one of the well known gun writers of the day (maybe Dick Metcalf, maybe Wiley Clapp, I forget who) about just what you asked. He fired a number of 9mm semi autos with varying barrel lengths and compared the same ammo with several 9mm revolvers of varying barrel lengths, e.g. a Smith and Wesson 940 with a 1 7/8 barrel and a Ruger SP101 with 3 1/8 inch barrel. And other handguns I don’t remember. He argued that while there was indeed a small loss due to barrel/cylinder gap, it was largely offset by the fact that semi auto barrels are measured including the chamber and revolvers are not, i.e. a 3 inch barrelled revolver was essentially the same as a 4.5 inch semi auto. The ballistics he posted largely confirmed his point. I have seen other ballistics posted that agreed. I wish I could post a reference for you. In other words, the 3 inch SP101 showed velocities on a par with duty sized semi autos with 4-4.5 inch barrels and the little Smith was on a par with 3.5 inch compact autos. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody. Last edited by Laz; March 10, 2018 at 06:51 PM.

March 10, 2018, 06:41 PM	#8
fallingrock71 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: OK Posts: 109	Laz, I must have read the same or similar article years ago. I also seem to remember reading ballistics and or watching videos on the subject. Years ago I was simply curious about 9mm revolvers and started looking into them. I got distracted by 1911s, CZs, ARs, bolt guns, pellet guns, shotguns, motorcycles etc. A deal on this LCR just kinda fell in my lap. Now I'm going back to look at all the reasons why I convinced myself I "needed" it the first place. I'm just not finding it for some reason. I could have sworn I had read or had seen that you don't give up much in ballistics going to a 9mm in a revolver over an auto of similar or even longer barrels. I could have dreamed it or just imagineered it at the time to justify a purchase. Who knows, but now it's bugging me way more than it should! lol __________________ "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~Thomas Jefferson

March 10, 2018, 06:52 PM	#9
fallingrock71 Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2008 Location: OK Posts: 109	Thanks Buckeye. That's along the lines of what I remembered reading years ago on the subject. Dangit, think i've talked myself into a chronograph too! stoopid gun habit __________________ "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." ~Thomas Jefferson

March 10, 2018, 03:16 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	A common "rule of thumb" is to take the velocity from a solid (e.g., auto pistol) barrel and reduce it 20-50 fps for a revolver barrel of the same length. The variation is because the barrel/cylinder gap itself varies, allowing a variation in gas escape. For practical purposes, and with a good (not worn out) revolver, there would be little significant difference in velocity due to the b/c gap. In other words, the 9mm will not be "awesome"; it will be equivalent to a HV .38 Special so, as others have found out, there is no real advantage in firing the 9mm in a revolver unless there are other factors (like free ammo from the military), and a serious disadvantage in tricky and possibly problematic extraction. Jim

March 10, 2018, 06:39 PM	#7
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...m-for.html?m=1 Here is a link ... Shows that a LCR 9 with a 1 7/8 inch barrel out performs a semi with a 3 inch barrel ...

March 10, 2018, 06:55 PM	#10
Buckeye! Senior Member Join Date: September 1, 2008 Posts: 849	I traded for a LCR 9 and traded even for a LCR 357 ... After seeing how well the 9mm SD projectiles function from short barrels .. I sorta wished I didn't trade ( live and learn ) From 115gr to 147gr .. Standard pressure, +P and +P+ https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/sel...llistic-tests/ You can compare the 9mm to 38 +P , 357mag...

March 10, 2018, 09:52 PM	#12
Johny Smith Junior member Join Date: March 7, 2018 Posts: 22	Never underestimate the 9mm a proud tradition since 1902. The only reason I carry a .357 magnum is because the .38 special does not instill confidence with me. Range fonder perhaps, but I have dance the waltz with the .38 special and I always get rid of it. Anything can do damage from a stick, a brick or a .22 but at the end of day some of us have to be realistic in out approach to self-defense, I myself have never been lucky nor am I a good shoot but if by chance I'm able to land one be it arm, leg or where ever I'd like the best possible odds I can get. The 9mm has the very real possibility to go through an arm and into the main body from an off-shot perhaps down on your a-- or simply a side shot, whatever.

March 11, 2018, 06:13 AM	#13
BrBa Member Join Date: November 29, 2015 Posts: 42	Try a box of 147 Federal HST standard pressure. Your search for a SD load is tits mate.

March 11, 2018, 10:07 AM	#14
luger fan Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2018 Posts: 150	I own a 9mm wheelie. It's a good BUG to one of my 9mm bottom feeders.

March 12, 2018, 06:39 PM	#15
WC145 Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2008 Location: Downeast Maine Posts: 1,836	I chrono'd a few different 9mm loads through a Taurus 905IB and a S&W 360J that had been rechambered to 9mm back in 2009. The Taurus was the version with the shortened frame and cylinder. I don't think these loads have changed any since then. WWB 115gr FMJ - 1096fps Magtech 115gr FMJ - 1057fps Federal 9BPLE 115gr JHP +P+ - 1174fps The 360J averaged around 10% lower velocities. I attributed the differences to the shorter 9mm length cylinder in the Taurus and some gas loss with the rechambered cyl in the S&W. As far as crimp jump, I've never had an issue with it and my 360J only weighs 13oz. __________________ "If violent crime is to be curbed, it is only the intended victim who can do it. The felon does not fear the police, and he fears neither judge or jury. Therefore what he must be taught to fear is his victim." - LtCol Jeff Cooper

March 13, 2018, 09:50 PM	#16
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is not really worth the argument except for those who seek out points for arguing, but for practical purposes there is little difference between the 9mm P and the .38 Special, given the same bullet and barrel length. US developers concentrated on the revolver, while Europeans went to the auto pistol. But in spite of some rather tall tales on both sides, I doubt that anyone on the receiving end was ever able to tell the difference. The current fad for 9mm revolvers has its origin in the change to 9mm by police in the US,, and the use of ammo obtained by the military and provided police by Uncle Sam at no or low cost, plus the desire by some police and others who still want to use a revolver yet keep uniformity of ammo. Jim