November 22, 2018, 11:45 AM | #1 |
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NY bill
One of our new state senators introduced a bill to make permit holders give their login and social media accounts before renewal of a carry permit. Forget the fact it violates a host of constitutional rights many in the state government think it is a good idea. Don’t believe me just google it. However it is going nowhere but scary that elected officials have no sense of the constitution they swore to uphold. They want the government to review your posts to see if you are any threat. Forget free speech, right to privacy etc
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November 22, 2018, 01:43 PM | #2 |
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Only in NY do we have politicians that want to run your entire life.
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November 22, 2018, 01:59 PM | #3 | ||
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Ok, just for the sake of argument, look at the other side. It's just an address. You ALREADY give them your home address (the one in the real world) AND your fingerprints, and other "personal information".
So, simply asking for it isn't any violation of our rights, that I can see. That being said, what they DO with that information could be a violation of something. Not privacy, since if you're on social media, you're (voluntarily) in PUBLIC, so you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy. Government monitoring what you say, in public, isn't any violation of anything. Doesn't affect your free speech rights, UNLESS they try to tell you what you can and cannot say. Then it becomes a free speech issue (censorship). A PRIVATE entity, such as Facebook etc., (or this forum) can set their own rules, and those are not any violation of your civil rights. Quote:
Monitoring your social media posts is not even remotely the same thing as a wire tap on your telephone. They don't need a WARRANT to read what you post in public chat. Just as they don't need a warrant to go through the trash that you have thrown away. AND its not violating any of our rights when they do it. Now, here's the risk, suppose they get this (requiring your social media address & account #) as a requirement but don't have the foresight (or deliberately refuse) to set up the system with the flexibility to deal with someone (such as an old dinosaur like me) who does NOT HAVE a social media account. I can easily see the glee on the faces of the anti-gun zealots when the permit system locks up and denies re-issue due to "failure to provide required information", when in fact you did provide it, but the answer was "none". Sure, there will be a process for fixing that "technical glitch" but it will take time, probably cost additional money, and may not even exist until AFTER the first successful legal challenge. Any of that is still a "win" for the anti gun crowd. Quote:
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November 22, 2018, 04:31 PM | #4 | ||
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No. This is the L&CR forum. We deal in specifics, so you should have provided a link to the bill. That said, I'm feeling generous, so I'll do it for you this time: S09191. If you'll check the "Text" box below and to the right of the search box, it will reveal the whole text.
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November 22, 2018, 07:15 PM | #5 |
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Why couldn't someone set up an account and just not use it? I have a facebook account that I almost never use. One would not get much info from it.
Rick
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November 22, 2018, 07:46 PM | #6 | |
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November 22, 2018, 09:03 PM | #7 |
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Question for those who might know...
Realizing that I'm still more 20th century than 21st, how is this, the govt checking your social media, different from the govt demanding a list of all the books you read from the public library? Sure the tech is different, but isn't the principle the same? And, hasn't THAT issue been dealt with already by court decisions? or, an I mistaken about that?
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November 22, 2018, 09:42 PM | #8 |
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What if you say gee I really don’t like our governor he oversteps his authority. Now does that mean someone will get their permit denied because of freedom of speech. It’s a slippery slope. How about boy I don’t like republicans or I don’t like democrats. Now you get revoked for political views . Now what about the constitution and free speech. Is it gone if you want to keep your right to bear arms? Who will assure you that your login and passwords are secure. How about your private text to your kids or wife etc ugh
Last edited by Dano4734; November 22, 2018 at 09:49 PM. |
November 22, 2018, 10:03 PM | #9 |
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Social media has become the tool to take freedoms. Although a slightly different subject, it’s become commonplace for employers to ask for social media passwords as part of the pre-employment checks.
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November 22, 2018, 10:49 PM | #10 | |
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Last time I got asked about social media presence, my reply was an honest and earnest "Ah' ain't got one buddy" |
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November 23, 2018, 07:38 AM | #11 | |
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I'd have to go looking for the court cases, but it's certainly suspect when the government goes looking at whether someone is "right thinking" (what book they read, what they post on social media, etc.) before deciding whether that person will be allowed a permit to exercise a fundamental, individual constitutional right. That said, there's a conceptual difference to be noted between: (a) what you check out at the library; and (b) what you post on line. In the first instance, you've gone to a source of information (and it was likely the only source in pre-internet days), and checked out some books. The information made public would have been the title of the books, your name, address, etc. While your opinions and beliefs may be inferred from what you've checked out, you have not openly stated them. In the second, you've taken an affirmative step (posting) towards making your beliefs and opinions known to the public at large.
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November 23, 2018, 07:47 AM | #12 | |
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You know, "national security" and all. And that's the same idea they're pushing here. "Gun safety" and all. Can I be sure there's nothing in my social media history that could be taken out of context? Did I post something about the 2nd Amendment being absolute? Did I "like" something on Facebook without knowing that it was a repost from an account of a white supremacist or someone with questionable political views? What are "questionable political views?" Who determines that? Better yet, what about people who don't do social media? Will they be denied for lack of pertinent data? We need to see the difference between laws that seek to protect us (even if founded on ignorance) versus laws that simply seek to punish us through attrition. This is an example of the latter. It's just way to set up arbitrary gatekeeping to the exercise of a right.
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November 23, 2018, 08:22 AM | #13 |
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I certainly agree that NY is trying to overstep government's granted-by-the-people authority. But this might serve as a reminder that anything you post, including on this forum, might be seen, passed on, etc. by someone with ill intent. My old OPSEC guy absolutely hated social media. And folks post the most foolish things.
Sometimes it reminds me of a long ago Boy Scout campout. Since they were in a tent, they thought no one could hear the jokes they were telling. (Not the Einstein Patrol) I don't like that Big Brother is watching, but he certainly is. Sometimes, that "Preview Post" button is worth a try. |
November 23, 2018, 08:56 AM | #14 | |
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November 23, 2018, 09:06 AM | #15 | |
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As for investigations of 'social media', I'd bet 'they' have search engines or logarithms that key on certain words or phrases, now..
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November 23, 2018, 09:15 AM | #16 |
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Sounds a lot like Minority Report is coming to fruition.
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November 23, 2018, 10:15 AM | #17 | |
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November 23, 2018, 11:00 AM | #18 |
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Been to California lately?
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November 23, 2018, 11:20 AM | #19 |
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difference between may issue and shall issue.... when a right is treated as a privilege.
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November 23, 2018, 12:03 PM | #20 | |||
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Ok, NY is a "MAY" issue state. Always has been, since the requirement for permits was put in place, generations ago. And like some other places who's governments go all the way back to British colonial rule, there are some "requirements" that are either not directly stated or are stated in vague terms, requiring proof that you are a citizen "of good moral character" in order for a permit to be issued. I've heard of cases where an applicant was denied due to "too many" speeding tickets, or even parking tickets. The rest of your life may be pure as the driven snow, but a judge can look at a "large" number of traffic tickets (as one example), and decide this pattern of behavior indicates you are an irresponsible scofflaw, and therefore NOT someone who should have a legally licensed pistol! They can deny you if they don't like your haircut, the color of your shoes, or because it's Tuesday, and that is legal under NY law. (now if they do deny you for a reason like that. its barking rare they will admit to it, they will come up with something else as justification if they need to, and they'll only need to if you take them to court over their decision, which is often not an option) I got a NY permit in 1975. It was a royal PITA back then, but having grown up in NY, it was just the system, we didn't think it was oppressive. Moving out of NY to a state where no permit was required for ownership, was an eye opening experience, proof that all the crap NY required simply wasn't needed. But, that was then, and this is now, and so many ways, we live in a different country than we used to...
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November 23, 2018, 01:10 PM | #21 |
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Have a look at the gang drug shootings every day in buffalo and ask how well the restrictions on gun ownership are working. It’s amazing that it seems the more restricted the laws are the more drug and gang shootings and robberies occur. Good people can’t be armed because it’s expensive and will generally be denied. Criminals can be armed anywhere and know most people can’t defend themselves
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November 23, 2018, 06:09 PM | #22 | |
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November 24, 2018, 12:53 AM | #23 |
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I want to see the search history of politicians.
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November 24, 2018, 01:05 AM | #24 | |
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November 24, 2018, 01:45 AM | #25 |
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It’s the infancy of Big Brother. Crazy thing is we are paying for it and people like the idea.
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