The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting > Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 5, 2018, 10:26 PM   #1
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,031
missouri bullet company article on gas checks.

I'm not really sure how to attribute this post as it was posted to their facebook page. Here is the page of of the company,

https://missouribullet.com/

Here is the url of the post. I'm pasting the text here as I'm not sure if everyone can access the facebook page and it doesn't seem to be present on the website.

https://www.facebook.com/missouribul...247?__tn__=K-R

I have provided this link to the facebook page.

Quote:
Why we don't do gas-check bullets.

It seemed like as good a time as any other to address this monumental question. Well ok, a few people may care and I'm all caught up on stuff, so why not?

First, insofar as handgun bullets are concerned, I just don't see the need for them except in very special - rare - circumstances. This is why: Properly made handgun bullets aren't subject to the pressure levels that gas checks are designed to overcome. Why solve a non-existent problem? When a .50 caliber plain-base handgun bullet of ours (the Crusher #1) can be fired at 1400 fps - without leading and without accuracy loss - exactly what does a gas check do for you? You want 1800 fps? If you want to shoot that 400 grain bullet faster than 1400 fps, you are a super-being and my hat is off to you. But super-beings are rare and they don't provide enough business for us to address. That's just supply and demand.

Second, expense. A bullet designed for a gas check, of course, requires a mould. We have moulds out the wazoo, with over 180 bullets in our line. Moulds cost about a thousand dollars per set of eight, which is what our machines require. We're not going to proliferate our line when the market won't come anywhere near to justifying the expense. The logistical arrangements alone would cripple our operation. They would, in fact, exponentiate. And critically, there is the labor cost associated with the application of gas checks to the bullet bases, as I know of no automated equipment that can do this. I believe that this lack of automation accounts for the insanely high prices associated with gas checked bullets: One would have to 1.) Produce them on a very small, one-or-two man scale, which runs up the unit labor cost and keep you struggling with meeting demand, or 2.) Hire a squadron of high-school kids at minimum wage to do the task and this again, runs up the labor cost sufficient to require that they be sold expensively. Plus, the energy costs of supplying electricity to all of their smart phones would be economically crippling. We do such a massive volume of bullets (4.5 million on the shelf, right now) that there is just no way we could hire enough people to do that low-level job and justify it, as I believe that the added sales would absolutely not return any kind of reasonable margin and probably would be revenue negative. This is why gas-checked cast bullets cost very nearly the same as jacketed bullets. And that is just plain nuts when you think about it.

Third, back to #1: Most people who want gas-checked bullets don't know that they don't need them. This is due to just plain ignorance in regard to cast bullet capabilities. We get calls from people who believe that a cast bullet needs a gas check in order to run at a thousand feet per second. Who the hell told them that? Granted, a swaged bullet will vaporize at that velocity, but we don't make swaged bullets and the sainted Elmer Keith was running wheel weight alloy back when the antimonial content was around 3%, whereas we use foundry certified alloy at 2% tin and 6% antimonial (8% for certain bullets). He made bullets with it that could withstand the thermonuclear loads he developed (although his guns would sometimes fail catastrophically in the process of firing them.) So, exactly when did bullets need gas checks to be able to handle loads that were 60% weaker than his?

And that's all I have to say about that.
It's interesting that he comes out and tells it exactly like it is trying to run a company. You can't please everyone. You can't provide every product. If a person wants to buy a handmade product they have to find someone to hand make it. People in general expect far too much, and sometimes they expect to pay only a fraction of the actual value or cost of manufacture.

On the other hand, there is a company in america that will print up labels and sell you a few boxes of their generic hot sauce with your own name on it. a bottle of sauce with a manufacturers cost of half a buck can be turned into a seven dollar item just by having the graphics crew print out a small lot of labels.
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old September 6, 2018, 11:53 AM   #2
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,471
I agree with the content of the third paragraph "First, insofar as handgun bullets are concerned.........."

The only bullets I use gas checks on were designed for rifle use.

The forth paragraph more or less states the real reason that the company doesn't make gas checked bullets: profit.
Dufus is offline  
Old September 6, 2018, 12:01 PM   #3
Ben Dover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2013
Location: High up in the Rocky Moun
Posts: 417
I cast my own. IME, some of my guns like gas checks, and others don't.
__________________
The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower
Ben Dover is offline  
Old September 6, 2018, 09:06 PM   #4
briandg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2010
Posts: 5,031
Quote:
The forth paragraph more or less states the real reason that the company doesn't make gas checked bullets: profit.
Well, yes, that's also the reason that ford doesn't make pink pintos anymore. If you can't sell enough of a product to justify the cost of making that product, that means that you can't make a profit. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit, is there?
__________________
None.
briandg is offline  
Old September 7, 2018, 11:44 AM   #5
Dufus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2014
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,471
Quote:
There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a profit, is there?
The obvious answer is absolutely "no". Really no need to even ask the question.

If there was no profit, there would be no business at all.

Missouri could make them and charge accordingly, but as the author stated, it would be sometime before the breakeven point would be exceeded.

A lot of businesses don't have the time to wait.
Dufus is offline  
Old September 7, 2018, 11:55 AM   #6
Ben Dover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 11, 2013
Location: High up in the Rocky Moun
Posts: 417
If they chooses not to offer gas checks, that's a legitimate company decision.

but don't bad-mouth them, or tell customers they don't need them, etc. Let the customer decide.

I've used gas checks in some, NOT ALL, of my weapons for 60 years.
__________________
The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower
Ben Dover is offline  
Old September 12, 2018, 05:53 PM   #7
Wendyj
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2015
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,216
I have to use gas checks in pistol bullets of 44 and 45 due to rifle velocities. The 45s and some 44s worked without in my revolvers but not the rifles. I just cast my own now and use gas checks as necessary. I also gas check all my 45-70 bullets in Marlin lever. My older rolling block can't run fast enough to justify.
__________________
God is NOT dead!!!!
Wendyj is offline  
Old September 14, 2018, 11:21 AM   #8
reddog81
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2014
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,038
I'm surprised he didn't mention powder coating. They offer many (maybe all) their bullet styles with PC and this does away with the need for a gas check in many of the scenarios where a gas check was previous "needed".
reddog81 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08026 seconds with 10 queries