Winchester M1917

[Jo6pak]

I bought this Winchester 1917 "Enfield" from a friend of mine. He has had it for years and I have constantly mentioned that if he ever wished to sell it, I would buy it from him.
He has been in the process of streamlining his collection and finally decided to part with this rifle, so he gave me a call.

I'd like some information on which sling to put on the rifle and what type of clips it uses (does it use the same clips at a '03 Springfield?)

But really I just thought I'd show it off a little

The bayonet is a well-made reproduction that I bought him years ago for his birthday..
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This is a late built rifle, as I believe that Winchester made only around 30,000 M1917s
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While many shooters overlook the M1917 and focus on the more well known rifles from era; it's my personal favorite and I think the '17 in the best rifle of WW1.
I'm glad to have it in my collection

[Huffmanite]

That is one nice looking M1917. Easy to see why you wanted it. Congrats!

[lamarw]

I don't blame you. It is a very nice looking older rifle.

[highpower3006]

The sling most associated with a M1917 is the Kerr. There are lots of them out there, both new repops and originals, but most of them are for WWII Thompson's (which are shorter) so you do have to be careful which one you get. Also you could just get a standard old M1907 sling and it would work just fine.

[kilimanjaro]

You got the right M1917, no doubt about it !

These use the same ammo clips as the Springfield. No one wanted to introduce another logistics bottleneck in the middle of the war.

[shuvelrider]

Unlike the Springfields, the Model of 1917 does not have a mag cutoff for single shot use. There was a stamped metal insert you would put above the mag follower, issued by the Army at that time. A field expedient would be too place a common nickle on top of the "follower", which would hold it in place against a couple grooves along the receiver walls. Very nice rifle, I own a Winnie also.

[James K]

Sorry, but that rifle has been re-blued, and the stock refinished. It is still a very desirable rifle, but not in original condition.

Winchester made some 580,000 Model 1917's; that is an early one, made in October, 1917.

Both the follower depressor and the "nickel trick" were used in garrison when doing the manual of arms to keep the bolt from locking back. (The Model 1903 user simply set the magazine cut-off to OFF to do the same thing.)

The Model 1917 was usually loaded from Model 1903 "stripper" clips and is often described as a five-shot rifle. In fact, it can be loaded with six rounds, due to the space in the magazine, which was originally designed to take five rounds of .276 Enfield, a round with a .528" base.

Jim

[Jo6pak]

No need to apologize, I know the rifle has been refinished. I don't buy guns as collectors or investments, they are all shooters so the "all-original" tag means less than it would to some.

Thanks for the clarification on the number of Winchesters built. I must have recalled incorrectly about the 30k number

And thanks to everyone for the information, I will have to track down a sling and some clips.
I am aware that the mag will hold 6 rounds, and will probably use that feature to get a bit of advantage next time we do some "old warhorse" run-n-gun games.

[joe sixgun]

I also have an M17 Winchester. I got it from my Grand dad. There is a Remington M17 also in my family that belonged to my other Grand dad. I have been trying to get my hands on it to put the pair together. I love the M17.

[delrom418]

Nice looking rifle. I hope it shoots as good as it looks! Where did you get the bayonet? I'd like to get one for mine.

[gyvel]

You have a nice find there.

Not to denigrate the rifle, but Ordnance Board reports that the Winchester made guns had the highest incidence of small parts breakage. Mostly springs, ejectors and firing pins (IIRC, but don't quote me).

[Erno86]

I like mine...that I just bought for $750, from a fellow shooter at our range -- He acquired it from another former shooter at our range, who was a engineer/repairman for Chennault's Flying Tigers. It's slinged-up for the swivel that is under the forearm --- Not the one closest to the muzzle.

[F. Guffey]

Then there was a gun smith that said there was nothing suspect about the M1917 Winchester or the M1917 Remington. He did say he preferred the Remington.

About the eddystone; he said it was anyone’s guess, no one knew what they were getting when they choose the M1917 Eddystone.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

It has been said I have the ugliest M1917 rifle every built. I took it to the range to determine if I purchased it for the sum of the parts or if the builder knew what he was doing. I ran 120 rounds through it and decide there was nothing I could do to improve on the accuracy.

While at the range a shooters from China vie Formosa came over to tell me his father used one in China with Chiang_Kai-shek.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Kai-shek

I was surprised his father was with him and even more surprised the professor recognized the rifle after the rebuild.

F. Guffey

[Jo6pak]

Originally Posted by delrom418

Where did you get the bayonet? I'd like to get one for mine.

Sorry, not sure who made it, but I believe the ad was in shotgun news (of course that was almost 15 years ago, so hard telling what's out there now.)

Originally Posted by Erno86

It's slinged-up for the swivel that is under the forearm --- Not the one closest to the muzzle.

The swivel at the end of the rifle is actually a stacking swivel used by troops to set 3 rifles together in a pyramid to keep them off the ground while in camp.


@F. Guffey There's nothing ugly about a rifle that shoots purdy

[kilimanjaro]

Try Ebay and IMI, International Military Antiques, for both genuine and repro bayos. A good repro is nearly as much as the real thing, anymore.

[gyvel]

About the eddystone; he said it was anyone’s guess, no one knew what they were getting when they choose the M1917 Eddystone.

Eddystone was set up in the old Baldwin Locomotive Plant, in Eddystone, PA.

The rifle plant was opened by Remington since they couldn't keep up with orders at the Ilion plant, and was run by Baldwin personnel who had plenty of production experience.

Contrary to urban myth, Eddystone-made 1914s and 1917s were very well made and serviceable. as good as those produced at the sister plant in Ilion, and certainly somewhat better than Winchesters, which had the highest percentage of small parts breakage.

[F. Guffey]

@F. Guffey There's nothing ugly about a rifle that shoots purdy

I agree, I do not spend that much time finding fault. The rifle was listed on a gun auction. The auction got a lot of attention on reloading forums criticising the builder. I thought the builder had to know what he was doing to build the rifle that ugly.

I was concerned the attention would drive the price up.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

somewhat better than Winchesters, which had the highest percentage of small parts breakage.

You left out the part about the steam powered torque wrenches.

All of this information was covered before the Internet, when it comes to the difference between the truth and legend I will stick with truth.

F. Guffey

[gyvel]

You left out the part about the steam powered torque wrenches.

Huh?????

[F. Guffey]

While many shooters overlook the M1917 and focus on the more well known rifles from era; it's my personal favorite and I think the '17 in the best rifle of WW1.
I'm glad to have it in my collection

__________________

My ‘17s are stamped Winchester, Remington and Eddystone. My P14s are stamped ERA, others are stamped W with a star. I wonder if ERA and Eddystone Raritan Arsenal is the same arsenal.

F. Guffey

[F. Guffey]

Eddystone Remington Arms, then there was Remington and Winchester.

My favorite? My favorite is the Remington, not the Eddystone, not the Winchester. There is an insistance the hole in the sight bridge must be filled. I do not agree.

The Eddystone has the hole, Winchester has the hole, and Remington does not have the hole.

F. Guffey

[James K]

Whether the Model 1917 is ugly is a matter of taste. But the ugliness, if any, is not the fault of the American makers, as the Model 1917 is almost an exact copy of the British .303 Pattern 1914, which the American factories had been making for the British. And the Pattern 1914 is an almost exact copy of the Pattern 1913, which was a relatively short-lived rifle since the British didn't want to get caught in the middle of an ammunition change if war came - as it did.

The Pattern 1913 was made for the .276 Enfield, a fairly powerful cartridge with a large powder capacity due to its large base (.521" vs .470" for the .30-'06). The large magazine of the P-13 was needed for the large cartridge, and the magazine was carried over to the P-14 and Model 1917.

Jim

[F. Guffey]

Whether the Model 1917 is ugly is a matter of taste.

I said I bid on and won an auction for a rifle that was voted the ‘Ugliest’, the auction started with “What was he thinking”. Then it got better, the information from the seller suggested it was possible to ask the builder because the builder included his driver license number across the top of the receiver.

I did not believe someone could build anything that ugly without knowing what they were doing, I bid on the auction for the sum of the parts or on an outside chance I was correct in believe he know more that the total sum of forum members that found nothing good to say about the rifle or the builder.

In an effort to waste time I ask members on reloading if they would consider holding down on the criticism until the auction was over. I did not want the attention on the forums to drive the price up. There is nothing like giving someone the chance to show some class, or a little class.

Anyhow there have been a few threads across several forums talking about bedded barrels; this barrel was bedded 360 degree for the length of the barrel and most of the receiver. I would go on but I am afraid a few members would get dizzy or pass out.

I took the rifle to the range with 12 different loads of 10 rounds each. Some of the groups moved but none of them opened up. I used 12 different case heads, different powders, and different bullets. Like I said, there is a chance the builder knew what he was doing.

$120.00 for a rifle that shoots 10 round groups that can be covered with a quarter. Then there is my Remington 03 stamped Santa Fe/national arms/Golden state. I almost sent that rifle home with my son and grandsons. Problem, I have an 03A4 barrel that is chambered to 308 Norma mag. Another problem, the Santa Fe can keep up with the ‘ugliest’, the Santa Fe does not have a scope.

F. Guffey

[Model12Win]

LOVE this gun. Excellent stopping power at close range. Accurate at long range. Can be sped reloaded with clips. The bayonet comes in handy in the trenches fighting off human wave attacks. Ammo can be found at Wal☆Mart. What's not to love?