Is reloading no longer economical?

kmahler · October 5, 2009, 01:37 PM

I was heavy into shooting and reloading from 2000-2004. Long story short I moved out of the country and didn't shoot for a very long time. Now, I'm getting back into it. Needless to say, I'm shocked at what has happened to Ammo prices and supply of reloading components.

I bought an AR-15 this weekend and picked up some .223 from Georgia Arms at the gun show. $350 for 1000 rds. I have a die set for .223 (planned on getting the AR a long time ago). I just used a web calculator to see what reloaded rounds would cost. I was shocked to see that if I reload my own with once fired (purchased) brass it was considerably more than the price from Georgia Arms.

Is it no longer economical to reload? I know I still get fantastic control over my loads and I have several loads that shoot perfectly in my pistols.

But, doing the math on this really was a jaw dropper for me.

Wollley · October 5, 2009, 02:02 PM

If one carries the price of brass out over 5 reloadings it is slightly more ecnomical. Not much but slightly.
$.07 powder
$.03 primer
$.18 bullet
$.026 brass
$.306 per round.

This is for reloading my match brass for HP.
Can't buy Black hills for that.

Kyo · October 5, 2009, 02:06 PM

it might not pay for itself right away, but you still save money in the long. i payed back all my reloading supplies within the first 1000 rounds i shot for my 45

freakshow10mm · October 5, 2009, 02:07 PM

Free brass off the ground
$60/K for 55gr FMJ bullets
$30 for primers
$72 for powder*

$162/K for plinkers. Should be less than $200-225/case with 68gr OTM or 69gr SMK.

*$20/lb for powder at 3.6lbs per thousand rounds 25gr/rd (25,000/7000)x20=3.57lbs

CraigC · October 5, 2009, 02:12 PM

How are you factoring in the cost of brass? With straightwalled pistol brass, they get reused so many times, I don't factor it in at all. Particularly since I waited so long to start reloading and had amassed a rather significant amount of once-fired brass. I figure I'm saving at least $15-$20 a box on revolver ammo.

kmahler · October 5, 2009, 02:15 PM

Ok I just realized what I did. I was comparing 1000 rnd cost of reloads to 500 rnd cost of Georgia Arms.

Now it makes better sense. Agreed the brass is reusable and I have plenty. I feel better now.

Now if I could just find some small rifle primers...

nitetrane98 · October 5, 2009, 02:18 PM

I don't know what your definition of "economical" is but just based on some quick and dirty googling you ought to be able to put together a pretty good .223 round for less than 20 cents a piece these days. This was pretty much name brand components. From all appearances that price will be dropping a bit in the near future. I didn't include a price for brass because you already have it.

Now if you're going to throw in labor and cost of the equipment etc, I think you'll still come out ahead it'll just take a while longer to reach profitability.
Reloading is enjoyable to me so I might actually be able to ascribe an entertainment value to my time at the reloading bench. Almost all entertainment costs something. And then I get to go shoot.

Foxbat · October 5, 2009, 02:33 PM

"How are you factoring in the cost of brass? With straightwalled pistol brass, they get reused so many times, I don't factor it in at all."

That is true... unless you compete in IPSC... then you lose 120-150 cases per event. So I figure it lasts just eight cycles...

Farmland · October 5, 2009, 08:21 PM

My latest cost for 1,000 rounds of 223. The total cost was $213.50. this included the cost for the bullets, primers and powder. The cases were given to me for free. I expect to be able to reload them several times and keep the cost at this figure until I need to obtain some more cases.

Brian Pfleuger · October 5, 2009, 08:30 PM

Reloading 357sig saves me between 75 and 50%. The more expensive the factory ammo is the more I save by making my own with the same bullet. For instance, Hornady 125gr XTPs are around $21.59(+tax)/20 or about $1.17 each. I can load equally performing rounds with the same bullet for about 31 cents.

tincanhunter · October 5, 2009, 08:46 PM

For what I'm reloading, 357 Sig, 40S&W, 45 ACP, 6.8SPC and 50 Beowulf to come, I produce ammo at about 35-40% of factory ammo cost. Plus I get to experiment with different loads to find the greatest accuracy in each of my guns. Hell, If I didn't reload, I couldn't afford to shoot as much as I do

.

confirmed shooter · October 5, 2009, 08:50 PM

I have been re-loading since 76, not just because it's cost worthy, I also get beter ammo, and I like to do it. You know, a job well done and all that happy horse ----. charlie sierra

**Unclenick** · October 5, 2009, 08:55 PM

The other things that have to be factored in are that it has been a seller's market during the shortages, and that has helped inflate prices. Also, we still see bullets around that were made with metals purchased at the peak of the metals market rise. I would expect at least some price drop over the next year.

jedlicka · October 5, 2009, 09:16 PM

I've only made two batches of ammo thus far, but reloading even a practice round for my 357 magnum (38 special round), has shown significant cost savings. Factory 158 grain LRN costs 40 cents a round, I'm making a 158 LSWC for 13.2 cents. Now I just need to get into bullet casting, and most of the price will vanish!

L_Killkenny · October 5, 2009, 09:56 PM

Even if it cost the same to reload as buy "cheap crap" I'd still do it and get great ammo for the same money.

LK

chris in va · October 5, 2009, 10:29 PM

I see you answered your own question, but I'll add my costs as well.

50 rd box of the cheapest 9mm I can find...$13.

Roll my own using scavenged brass at the range and lead bullets...$5.90.

I like mine better as they can be loaded to my liking. My first batch came out similar to the hotter S&B stuff, which I really enjoy.

And the relaxation of making ammo has no cost.

Jason280 · October 5, 2009, 11:26 PM

You still have to consider the setup cost and time associated with loading. Personally, I didn't get into loading so much for the cost savings as much as the ability to fine tune my loads for each particular rifle. In all honesty, I'm probably barely breaking even considering the amount of reloading equipment I've purchased.

Randy 1911 · October 6, 2009, 02:19 AM

Some ammo you save more than others. When I load 44 Mag I save about $19 a box of 50

when I load the same type of ammo(JHP and magnum powder). Regardless, I always save at least 40% compared to factory. So I say yes, it is definely worth it. Especially if you shoot a lot.

Tim R · October 6, 2009, 02:46 AM

I shoot NRA high power with 223 and 308. The cost of factory match ammo is very high and reloading makes it affordable. The reloading equipment paid for it's self long ago.

I used to be able to load a 100 rounds of 308 for about $44.00 and a 100 rounds of 223 for about $22.00. I buy SMK's in 500 round boxes and am still working on bullets I bought before the price increase. I would hate to see the costs now.

Jim243 · October 6, 2009, 09:52 AM

Wally World last night had 40 grain 223s for about $9.95 for 20 rounds. That's about $0.50 per round.

Mine

Brass 20 cents per case, but used 5 times = $0.04 per case
Powder $22.00 per pound and I use 25 grains = 25/7000 = $0.07 per Round
Primers $32.00 per 1000 = $0.032 per primer
Bullets at $16.95 per 100 = $0.17 per bullet

or $0.312 per round or $0.19 less than Wal-Mart, that's a 37.6% savings

Average outting to the range 200 rounds or a $38.00 savings, more than enough to pay for the range fee.

Besides, my loads are 1,000.0% better than the commercial ammo.

Jim

QBall45 · October 6, 2009, 10:28 AM

My cost for 223 is .215 per rd. For 45ACP its .05 per rd (cast my own lead/lead is free)

I just can't figure out how you guys think reloading saves money. I'm not saving a dime. My pockets are always empty as I spend it all on components. My shooting costs have. Gone through the roof since I started reloading. Where's the savings?

Oh yeah!! That's right I forgot...I'm shooting 4 times as much as I would if I were buying factory loads. That's where the savings is at.

You bet hand loading is economical. Cost per rounds is far less than factory. In order to realize the cost savings one must look at equipment cost at start up as an investment that is depreciated over the life of the equipment. Thou, most of us break even somewhere around 1000 loaded rounds.

spectre9 · October 6, 2009, 08:42 PM

My local walmart has started to have 9mm Federal in stock rather regularly again. But they have recently raised their prices from $8.97 to $9.47. But still, FAR more availability than before. The shelf tags still show 100rds of WIN Whitebox for $19.87.

Because primers cost me $45 locally my 100 round cost for plated has climbed to close to the shelf price. But I figure I replace time spent at the range paying range fees with time spent at the reloading bench, so I save money.

Once the costs go back down (or I bother to mail order primers in bulk) then 9mm might be a far better deal. But for now its barely cheaper... and I'm using plated not jacketed

Rifle rounds are an entirely different matter, though, because although we get CoreLokt cheap here ($14.97 for .270 WIN) its still FAR more than my cost...

AlaskaMike · October 7, 2009, 09:27 AM

Randy_1911 nailed it--it completely depends on the caliber as to how much money per round you're going to save. I know I save much more per round on my .375 H&H ammo than I do on much more common calibers like .30-06 or .45 ACP when using jacketed bullets. When using my own cast bullets it changes the equation because I have a virtually unlimited supply of free lead.

.223 Remington is such a common caliber you're probably not going to save much. It also doesn't lend itself nearly as well to cast bullets as other calibers so you're forced to buy relatively expensive jacketed bullets. The one thing it has going for it is that you can probably find bucketfuls of usable brass at the range.

Mike

mongoose33 · October 7, 2009, 02:55 PM

It depends on whether you buy components in bulk or at retail in small quantities.

Using bulk buys (buying powder in 4# or 8# kegs, buying primers at least 5k at a time, buying bullets by the 2k at least), I'm able to reload

9mm for half the cost of WWB (10.3 cents per round)

.45 for less than half the cost of WWB (13.5 cents per round)

.223 for less than half the cost of Federal Bulk (100 ct) rounds (or about 20.4 cents per round).

That's using reloaded brass, which seems to work just fine.

In other words, I'm at half price. And since I can reload over 300 of 9mm and .45 per hour, my time is compensated at over $50/hour for .45, and over $30/hour for 9mm. .223 is over $30/hour as well.

BigJimP · October 7, 2009, 03:07 PM

Buy all your components in case lots ( primers and bullets ) and powder in 8lb cannisters ..... and my 9mm costs for reloads are $ 6.26 a box vs at least $9 - $12 a box retail ( and I use a premium jacketed bullet at 124 gr ).

So there is still a lot of money to be saved by reloading.

October 5, 2009, 01:37 PM	#1
kmahler Junior Member Join Date: October 5, 2009 Posts: 2	Is reloading no longer economical? I was heavy into shooting and reloading from 2000-2004. Long story short I moved out of the country and didn't shoot for a very long time. Now, I'm getting back into it. Needless to say, I'm shocked at what has happened to Ammo prices and supply of reloading components. I bought an AR-15 this weekend and picked up some .223 from Georgia Arms at the gun show. $350 for 1000 rds. I have a die set for .223 (planned on getting the AR a long time ago). I just used a web calculator to see what reloaded rounds would cost. I was shocked to see that if I reload my own with once fired (purchased) brass it was considerably more than the price from Georgia Arms. Is it no longer economical to reload? I know I still get fantastic control over my loads and I have several loads that shoot perfectly in my pistols. But, doing the math on this really was a jaw dropper for me.

October 5, 2009, 02:06 PM	#3
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	it might not pay for itself right away, but you still save money in the long. i payed back all my reloading supplies within the first 1000 rounds i shot for my 45 __________________ 1. The gun is *always* loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. 4. Be be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

October 5, 2009, 02:12 PM	#5
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	How are you factoring in the cost of brass? With straightwalled pistol brass, they get reused so many times, I don't factor it in at all. Particularly since I waited so long to start reloading and had amassed a rather significant amount of once-fired brass. I figure I'm saving at least $15-$20 a box on revolver ammo. Last edited by CraigC; October 5, 2009 at 02:19 PM.

October 5, 2009, 08:30 PM	#10
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Reloading 357sig saves me between 75 and 50%. The more expensive the factory ammo is the more I save by making my own with the same bullet. For instance, Hornady 125gr XTPs are around $21.59(+tax)/20 or about $1.17 each. I can load equally performing rounds with the same bullet for about 31 cents. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

October 5, 2009, 08:55 PM	#13
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The other things that have to be factored in are that it has been a seller's market during the shortages, and that has helped inflate prices. Also, we still see bullets around that were made with metals purchased at the peak of the metals market rise. I would expect at least some price drop over the next year. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 5, 2009, 02:02 PM	#2
Wollley Junior Member Join Date: October 4, 2009 Posts: 2	If one carries the price of brass out over 5 reloadings it is slightly more ecnomical. Not much but slightly. $.07 powder $.03 primer $.18 bullet $.026 brass $.306 per round. This is for reloading my match brass for HP. Can't buy Black hills for that.

October 5, 2009, 02:07 PM	#4
freakshow10mm Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2008 Location: MI Posts: 1,398	Free brass off the ground $60/K for 55gr FMJ bullets $30 for primers $72 for powder* $162/K for plinkers. Should be less than $200-225/case with 68gr OTM or 69gr SMK. *$20/lb for powder at 3.6lbs per thousand rounds 25gr/rd (25,000/7000)x20=3.57lbs

October 5, 2009, 02:15 PM	#6
kmahler Junior Member Join Date: October 5, 2009 Posts: 2	Ok I just realized what I did. I was comparing 1000 rnd cost of reloads to 500 rnd cost of Georgia Arms. Now it makes better sense. Agreed the brass is reusable and I have plenty. I feel better now. Now if I could just find some small rifle primers...

October 5, 2009, 02:18 PM	#7
nitetrane98 Junior member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 143	I don't know what your definition of "economical" is but just based on some quick and dirty googling you ought to be able to put together a pretty good .223 round for less than 20 cents a piece these days. This was pretty much name brand components. From all appearances that price will be dropping a bit in the near future. I didn't include a price for brass because you already have it. Now if you're going to throw in labor and cost of the equipment etc, I think you'll still come out ahead it'll just take a while longer to reach profitability. Reloading is enjoyable to me so I might actually be able to ascribe an entertainment value to my time at the reloading bench. Almost all entertainment costs something. And then I get to go shoot.

October 5, 2009, 02:33 PM	#8
Foxbat Senior Member Join Date: January 13, 2008 Posts: 367	"How are you factoring in the cost of brass? With straightwalled pistol brass, they get reused so many times, I don't factor it in at all." That is true... unless you compete in IPSC... then you lose 120-150 cases per event. So I figure it lasts just eight cycles...

October 5, 2009, 08:21 PM	#9
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	My latest cost for 1,000 rounds of 223. The total cost was $213.50. this included the cost for the bullets, primers and powder. The cases were given to me for free. I expect to be able to reload them several times and keep the cost at this figure until I need to obtain some more cases.

October 5, 2009, 08:46 PM	#11
tincanhunter Member Join Date: July 3, 2009 Posts: 94	For what I'm reloading, 357 Sig, 40S&W, 45 ACP, 6.8SPC and 50 Beowulf to come, I produce ammo at about 35-40% of factory ammo cost. Plus I get to experiment with different loads to find the greatest accuracy in each of my guns. Hell, If I didn't reload, I couldn't afford to shoot as much as I do .

October 5, 2009, 08:50 PM	#12
confirmed shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2009 Location: reno, Nv. Posts: 109	I have been re-loading since 76, not just because it's cost worthy, I also get beter ammo, and I like to do it. You know, a job well done and all that happy horse ----. charlie sierra

October 5, 2009, 09:16 PM	#14
jedlicka Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2009 Posts: 4	I've only made two batches of ammo thus far, but reloading even a practice round for my 357 magnum (38 special round), has shown significant cost savings. Factory 158 grain LRN costs 40 cents a round, I'm making a 158 LSWC for 13.2 cents. Now I just need to get into bullet casting, and most of the price will vanish!

October 5, 2009, 09:56 PM	#15
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	Even if it cost the same to reload as buy "cheap crap" I'd still do it and get great ammo for the same money. LK

October 5, 2009, 10:29 PM	#16
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I see you answered your own question, but I'll add my costs as well. 50 rd box of the cheapest 9mm I can find...$13. Roll my own using scavenged brass at the range and lead bullets...$5.90. I like mine better as they can be loaded to my liking. My first batch came out similar to the hotter S&B stuff, which I really enjoy. And the relaxation of making ammo has no cost.

October 5, 2009, 11:26 PM	#17
Jason280 Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2002 Location: Athens,Georgia Posts: 355	You still have to consider the setup cost and time associated with loading. Personally, I didn't get into loading so much for the cost savings as much as the ability to fine tune my loads for each particular rifle. In all honesty, I'm probably barely breaking even considering the amount of reloading equipment I've purchased.

October 6, 2009, 02:19 AM	#18
Randy 1911 Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2009 Location: Western Arkansas Posts: 273	Some ammo you save more than others. When I load 44 Mag I save about $19 a box of 50 when I load the same type of ammo(JHP and magnum powder). Regardless, I always save at least 40% compared to factory. So I say yes, it is definely worth it. Especially if you shoot a lot. __________________ Been Reloading 27 Years NRA Member Member Old Fort Gun Club www.ofgc.org

October 6, 2009, 02:46 AM	#19
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I shoot NRA high power with 223 and 308. The cost of factory match ammo is very high and reloading makes it affordable. The reloading equipment paid for it's self long ago. I used to be able to load a 100 rounds of 308 for about $44.00 and a 100 rounds of 223 for about $22.00. I buy SMK's in 500 round boxes and am still working on bullets I bought before the price increase. I would hate to see the costs now. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

October 6, 2009, 09:52 AM	#20
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	Wally World last night had 40 grain 223s for about $9.95 for 20 rounds. That's about $0.50 per round. Mine Brass 20 cents per case, but used 5 times = $0.04 per case Powder $22.00 per pound and I use 25 grains = 25/7000 = $0.07 per Round Primers $32.00 per 1000 = $0.032 per primer Bullets at $16.95 per 100 = $0.17 per bullet or $0.312 per round or $0.19 less than Wal-Mart, that's a 37.6% savings Average outting to the range 200 rounds or a $38.00 savings, more than enough to pay for the range fee. Besides, my loads are 1,000.0% better than the commercial ammo. Jim

October 6, 2009, 10:28 AM	#21
QBall45 Senior Member Join Date: April 5, 2008 Location: South Central Minnesota Posts: 584	My cost for 223 is .215 per rd. For 45ACP its .05 per rd (cast my own lead/lead is free) I just can't figure out how you guys think reloading saves money. I'm not saving a dime. My pockets are always empty as I spend it all on components. My shooting costs have. Gone through the roof since I started reloading. Where's the savings? Oh yeah!! That's right I forgot...I'm shooting 4 times as much as I would if I were buying factory loads. That's where the savings is at. You bet hand loading is economical. Cost per rounds is far less than factory. In order to realize the cost savings one must look at equipment cost at start up as an investment that is depreciated over the life of the equipment. Thou, most of us break even somewhere around 1000 loaded rounds.

October 6, 2009, 08:42 PM	#22
spectre9 Junior Member Join Date: October 6, 2009 Posts: 2	Prices starting to drop... or raise? 9mm == $9.50 My local walmart has started to have 9mm Federal in stock rather regularly again. But they have recently raised their prices from $8.97 to $9.47. But still, FAR more availability than before. The shelf tags still show 100rds of WIN Whitebox for $19.87. Because primers cost me $45 locally my 100 round cost for plated has climbed to close to the shelf price. But I figure I replace time spent at the range paying range fees with time spent at the reloading bench, so I save money. Once the costs go back down (or I bother to mail order primers in bulk) then 9mm might be a far better deal. But for now its barely cheaper... and I'm using plated not jacketed Rifle rounds are an entirely different matter, though, because although we get CoreLokt cheap here ($14.97 for .270 WIN) its still FAR more than my cost...

October 7, 2009, 09:27 AM	#23
AlaskaMike Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Posts: 941	Randy_1911 nailed it--it completely depends on the caliber as to how much money per round you're going to save. I know I save much more per round on my .375 H&H ammo than I do on much more common calibers like .30-06 or .45 ACP when using jacketed bullets. When using my own cast bullets it changes the equation because I have a virtually unlimited supply of free lead. .223 Remington is such a common caliber you're probably not going to save much. It also doesn't lend itself nearly as well to cast bullets as other calibers so you're forced to buy relatively expensive jacketed bullets. The one thing it has going for it is that you can probably find bucketfuls of usable brass at the range. Mike

October 7, 2009, 02:55 PM	#24
mongoose33 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 228	It depends on whether you buy components in bulk or at retail in small quantities. Using bulk buys (buying powder in 4# or 8# kegs, buying primers at least 5k at a time, buying bullets by the 2k at least), I'm able to reload 9mm for half the cost of WWB (10.3 cents per round) .45 for less than half the cost of WWB (13.5 cents per round) .223 for less than half the cost of Federal Bulk (100 ct) rounds (or about 20.4 cents per round). That's using reloaded brass, which seems to work just fine. In other words, I'm at half price. And since I can reload over 300 of 9mm and .45 per hour, my time is compensated at over $50/hour for .45, and over $30/hour for 9mm. .223 is over $30/hour as well.

October 7, 2009, 03:07 PM	#25
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Buy all your components in case lots ( primers and bullets ) and powder in 8lb cannisters ..... and my 9mm costs for reloads are $ 6.26 a box vs at least $9 - $12 a box retail ( and I use a premium jacketed bullet at 124 gr ). So there is still a lot of money to be saved by reloading.