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Old February 7, 2019, 04:18 PM   #126
Drm50
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5yrs ago I had 68 CF rifles. I sold all the magnum hunting rifles the biggest being 375H&H.
Then sold off the bottom end and got rid of HV Varmit guns only keeping a few of them. Then sold off some run of the mill stuff like Rem 700s, InterArms, ect. I was down to about half but have since backslid and bought more rifles. ( it's a sickness) I use a 30/30 or 35 for hunting in heavy cover, iron sights. I use 308 or 30/06 for broken terrain and 270 for open
terrain. The 30/06 is actually the biggest rifles I have kept. I do have a 45/70 but it's not near the cartridge a 30/06 is. If I only had one rifle to keep it would be 30/06. It would be on the light side for big bears but would handle anything else in North America. One of my favorite deer rifles is a old Win 1895 with steel butt plate. It does rap you a bit but hunting
you don't notice it.
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Old February 7, 2019, 05:48 PM   #127
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What can be said about the 30-06 that cannot also be said about the 7MM Rem. Magnum or the .300 Winchester Magnum?
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Old February 8, 2019, 04:39 PM   #128
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A whole lot Less recoil?
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Old February 8, 2019, 04:55 PM   #129
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A whole lot Less recoil?
And a whole lot less muzzle blast in anything less than a 26" barrel. I'll shoot a 30-06 comfortably with a 22" bbl. That same bbl length with a belted mag is brutal.
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Old February 8, 2019, 05:22 PM   #130
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If I only had one rifle to keep it would be 30/06. It would be on the light side for big bears
I wold guess 10x the number of AK bears (you know the big ones from the really big Kodiak Island Browns to South Central to South East) were taken by 30-06 in the day when killing them to keep them away from property and families were common.

My step dads father shot 8. Picture of one had a head as big as the front of a Jeep grill.
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Old February 8, 2019, 07:26 PM   #131
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A whole lot Less recoil?
That ignores the slippery slope of just going to a .308 to get less recoil and be done with it.
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Old February 8, 2019, 08:16 PM   #132
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The OP title was "Why not the 30-06?"

We just had suggestions of 7mm mag,300 mag,and 308 as supposedly ?better" choices,all by the same guy.

I guess the point is one reason to NOT own a 30-06 is if you have some emotional reason or preference or you just don't want a 30-06.


That's OK. That's why they make a lot of other cartridges.Feel free! Enjoy what you like. Really.


But Dahermit,how you "feel" about the 30-06 is not any reason for another person to choose or not choose the 30-06.

For many other folks its a very sound choice. So is a 270,a 308,etc.

If a person asks me " I'm thinking 30-06. Is there any reason I should not get one?" I might suggest "Shoot one. Here,try mine"


But,30-06? Good choice! (Among many other good choices)
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Old February 8, 2019, 08:40 PM   #133
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That ignores the slippery slope of just going to a .308 to get less recoil and be done with it.
Well the question was what the 30-06 offers vs a specific list of calibers.

Less recoil is certainly less.

We arn't talking about the least recoil to be broadly effective (that would be 6.5 something or the other in my book)

On the other hand the 06 has proven it can handle anything up to Big Bears just fine . There is no fully free lunch.

But there is no reason an 06 is not fully capable of anything in Nord America and most o or all of what Africa offers (given Cape Buff that are better shot with a cannon of some kind (and yes other calibers are as well, 7.5 Swiss etc )
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Old February 8, 2019, 09:45 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by dahermit View Post
I beg to differ. Despite the admonition of the training Sgt.s that the M1 did not "kick", it kicked the living heck out of me. We had a course of fire at Fort Knox called, "Trainfire" consisting of human shaped silhouettes that would pop-up at random distances after a horn sounded. A hit would knock the silhouette down and you would be scored with a hit. Long story short, when I first started out firing I hit nearly every target no matter what distance (you had to quickly estimate the distance and fire before the target dropped out of sight), they were. I was easily shooting in the expert class. However, as the shooting went on, I got so beat-up from the recoil I began to miss some of the targets. In the end, I qualified as a "Sharpshooter"...five hits from obtaining the top score of "Expert".

Also, some years ago I fired my M1 in NRA local service rifle matches taking home third place in as many matches...beating several of the guys who traveled to out of state matches to compete. Then, I bought a Colt H-Bar to shoot in the matches. The very first match in which I competed, I shot the highest score I had ever fired...High Master. I would have taken a first in that match except for the fact that some damned "kid"...a rifle instructor for the National Guard had been competing in that match and beat me.

I attribute the difference between my shooting the M1 and the Colt H-bar .223, was the recoil...30-06's have always kicked the hell out of me and it was evident in my shooting.
The "S" stocked M1903 Springfield - will kick the hell out of you.

The M1 Garand - is just a harsh mistress... that requires good tight field positions when you take her dancin'.






Red

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Old February 8, 2019, 09:59 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Art Eatman View Post
If, as so many people claim, the muzzle velocities of 150-grain bullets are near equal for the .308 and '06, how can the recoils be very much different?

The lesser powder charge of the .308 probably means maybe a 5% reduction in recoil. That's not very much. Can your shoulder tell the difference?
No gettin' around the physics.


That said, the recoil produced by those 150 gr. .308 rifles is tolerable, and even neglectable in a heavier rifle of one w/ a proper recoil pad.

The problem is when you go to heavier bullets.

The .270 Win/.280 Rem shine because they take that tolerable/neglectable recoil and wrap it around a high BC/high SD 150 gr. bullet, so you don't need to go heavier.




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Old February 9, 2019, 11:22 AM   #136
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The .270 Win/.280 Rem shine because they take that tolerable/neglectable recoil and wrap it around a high BC/high SD 150 gr. bullet, so you don't need to go heavier.
Wow, a 270 is certainly tolerably, non existent? Not by my experience. Recoil wise a 30-06 and 270 are close enough (with the edge to 270) to be a toss up.

270 has some abilities in the high BC and longer range on trajectory though that is inches in several feet out at 600 yards.

But this is Why Not the 30-06, not long range shooting (6.5 rules there) or recoil.

Like the 7.5 Swiss, 06/ 8mm (granted that nis a bit out of the range) but the 30 calibers are a sweet spot for shooting (non magnum)

6.5 is also a sweet spot. We would do fine with 6.5, 06 class and 375 class. But then we would not anything to disagree about either!
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Old February 9, 2019, 12:17 PM   #137
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This has all been interesting reading. But, out of all this, what I find interesting is all these cartridges/calibers eventually are compared to the .30-'06. Old or new.
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Old February 9, 2019, 02:12 PM   #138
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This has all been interesting reading. But, out of all this, what I find interesting is all these cartridges/calibers eventually are compared to the .30-'06. Old or new.
Deep within that post (or maybe not so deep), there seems to be a suggestion championing the 30-06. However, if the comparisons to the 30-06 were equally negative and positive, then it would not suggest that the 30-06 is a better cartridge, only a median cartridge and the suggestion then fails as to being "better". However in general, the 30-06 is arguably one of, if not the most popular cartridges in our country.
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Old February 9, 2019, 03:37 PM   #139
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Uhmm, that is correct. Especially the last sentence.
I wasn't very deceptive, was I?
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Old February 9, 2019, 03:39 PM   #140
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Had to quickly add one more post count. Didn't care for that last number.
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Old February 9, 2019, 07:44 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
Wow, a 270 is certainly tolerably, non existent? Not by my experience. Recoil wise a 30-06 and 270 are close enough (with the edge to 270) to be a toss up.

270 has some abilities in the high BC and longer range on trajectory though that is inches in several feet out at 600 yards.

But this is Why Not the 30-06, not long range shooting (6.5 rules there) or recoil.

Like the 7.5 Swiss, 06/ 8mm (granted that nis a bit out of the range) but the 30 calibers are a sweet spot for shooting (non magnum)

6.5 is also a sweet spot. We would do fine with 6.5, 06 class and 375 class. But then we would not anything to disagree about either!
First off, the word used was "neglectable", not "non existent".

And the issue was heavy for caliber, high SD bullets.


The 30-06 has the 180 gr., (SD 0.271) and will push it out of a 22" sporter at ~ 2650 fps.

The .270 Win has the 150 gr., (SD 0.279) for a 22" muzzle velocity of ~ 2780 fps.

If the rifle is wood stocked and scoped, it will weigh ~ 8.5 lbs.

Free recoil for these loads are:
30-06 = 20.2 Lb-ft.
270 Win = 17.0 Lb-ft.

That is almost a 19% increase, that starts to migrate up into the "intolerable" range.

If the rifle is lighter, it will be even more.


No gettin' around the physics.




Red

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Old February 9, 2019, 09:08 PM   #142
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The .270 Win/.280 Rem shine because they take that tolerable/neglectable recoil and wrap it around a high BC/high SD 150 gr. bullet, so you don't need to go heavier.
Neglectable is not a word. I assumed negligible. If not then nonsense.

30-06 is tolerable as well. I try not to neglect mine though.
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Old February 10, 2019, 12:57 AM   #143
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The 30-06 has the 180 gr., (SD 0.271) and will push it out of a 22" sporter at ~ 2650 fps.

Quote:
That is almost a 19% increase, that starts to migrate up into the "intolerable" range.
Both of my 30-06's have 26 inch barrels and I can push a 180 grain bullet over 2900 FPS. I don't know how many foot pounds of recoil that is but it is certainly not intolerable.
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Old February 10, 2019, 07:01 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by RC20 View Post
Neglectable is not a word. I assumed negligible. If not then nonsense.

30-06 is tolerable as well. I try not to neglect mine though.
Is there a difference between negligible and neglectable?

Neglectable - to be ignored.
Negligible - to not be counted.

The 30-06 is tolerable - in an 11 lb. M1 Garand.

In an 8.5 lb (or lighter) sporting rifle, the 30-06 can be a problem.

The .270 Win., not so much.

The 150 gr. .270 Win. will do, for the most part, what the 180 gr. 30-06 will do - and w/ higher velocity/flatter shooting/less recoil.

No gettin' around the physics.




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Old February 10, 2019, 08:30 PM   #145
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Put a 180 gr in the 270 Win and then compare them. Otherwise, the comparison has no meaning.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:46 PM   #146
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Put a 180 gr in the 270 Win and then compare them. Otherwise, the comparison has no meaning.
Huh...?!?

Oh, OK.

Ha!




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Old February 11, 2019, 08:09 PM   #147
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You can also handload a 270 with 24" barrel and 150 grain bullets to 3,000 fps with at least a few optimal powders...but then it kicks just as much as a 30-'06.
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Old February 11, 2019, 09:02 PM   #148
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You can also handload a 270 with 24" barrel and 150 grain bullets to 3,000 fps with at least a few optimal powders...but then it kicks just as much as a 30-'06.
What you get at 300 yards for your roughly 20% less recoil:

Range - VEL - NRG - Drop (200 yd zero)

.270 Win/150 gr:
300 - 2239 - 1670.0 -7.8

30-06/180 gr:
300 - 2080 - 1729.0 -9.0

And, in case you are interested?
6.5 CM/140 gr:

300 - 2033 - 1284.0 -9.2




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Old February 12, 2019, 01:09 AM   #149
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Red Devil, I own few hunting rifles and one is 270 couple 30-06 and some others. I've really never compared and my only question is, 30-06 will shoot 150gr bullet and why not use that.
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Old February 12, 2019, 01:37 PM   #150
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What you get at 300 yards for your roughly 20% less recoil:

Range - VEL - NRG - Drop (200 yd zero)

.270 Win/150 gr:
300 - 2239 - 1670.0 -7.8

30-06/180 gr:
300 - 2080 - 1729.0 -9.0
How about this:

.270 Win/150 gr Nosler LRAB BC .496
300 - 2356 - 1845 -11.9

30-06/150 gr Nosler Accubond BC .435
300 - 2360 - 1854 -11.3

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 270Win = 23.31

Recoil Rifle: 7.5 lbs 30-06 = 23.16

Recoil calculator: http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php


Comparing apples to apples instead of apples to watermelons, the 30-06 comes out ahead every time.

Cutting all the Bullshi*, both calibers have a tremendous following and for very good reasons. They get the job done and done well.

Last edited by Dufus; February 12, 2019 at 01:48 PM.
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