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Old February 9, 2019, 02:42 PM   #1
kmw1954
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Illinois ammunition registry bill introduced

Just received this a little while ago of a new Ammo Registry Bill for the state of Illinois. You all have fun and good luck!

http://www.mssblog.com/2019/02/08/il...ll-introduced/
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Old February 9, 2019, 08:00 PM   #2
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What is wrong with those people in Illinois? Don’t they know that they are surrounded? Being Texan means also that we don’t believe everything we’re told. As far as I’m concerned Illinois has been screwed up since the time of Lincoln, at least! Those idiots keep the foolish lawmakers elected and they can’t see that their officials either don’t care for them or are too stupid to be in that position...

I’ve never even heard of the FOIT thing...
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Old February 9, 2019, 10:15 PM   #3
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Isn't there a proposal to require FOID holders to reveal all social Medial accounts?

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/02...ckground-foid/
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Old February 9, 2019, 11:13 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Roamin_Wade View Post
What is wrong with those people in Illinois? Don’t they know that they are surrounded? Being Texan means also that we don’t believe everything we’re told. As far as I’m concerned Illinois has been screwed up since the time of Lincoln, at least! Those idiots keep the foolish lawmakers elected and they can’t see that their officials either don’t care for them or are too stupid to be in that position...

I’ve never even heard of the FOIT thing...
"I’ve never even heard of the FOIT thing..."
Illinois has had the FOID card for decades. It is basically a card you apply for through the state police. They perform a background check and then if all is well you get your card with a photo ID. In Illinois you have to have one to buy ammo, buy a firearm and use a shooting range. It is an acronym for Firearms Owner Identification Card. I had one back in Illinois.
Illinois thinks that restricting law abiding gun owners deters crime. Liberal logic at best.
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Old February 9, 2019, 11:22 PM   #5
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Of the 102 counties in Illinois, only 10 are blue. Problem is, those 10 counties hold a higher population than the remaining 92. If Illinois had a system like the Federal Electoral College, it would be a great state. Regardless, I don't think we need to knee jerk this one. There was a time, 40 some odd years ago, that there was an ammo registry of sorts in Illinois. Every time you bought ammo, your information was recorded. Too costly to keep records, non compliance, and difficult to enforce lead to it's elimination.
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Old February 10, 2019, 08:00 AM   #6
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Illinois thinks that restricting law abiding gun owners deters crime. Liberal logic at best.
No, I think they believe restricting law abiding gun owners deters gun ownership which is their end game.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:14 AM   #7
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No, I think they believe restricting law abiding gun owners deters gun ownership which is their end game.
No, I think they believe restricting law abiding gun owners increases their power to control which is their end game.

There...fixed that for you. If my words are hard to understand, think North Korea.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:35 AM   #8
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The original purpose of the FOID card when introduced in the 1960s was to keep blacks from buying/possessing firearm and ammunition. Mayor Daley, who championed the FOID card, admitted this in his infamous call to LBJ trying to get him to do something at the federal level. The $10 charge was a substantial chunk of money in those days.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:40 AM   #9
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There was a time, 40 some odd years ago, that there was an ammo registry of sorts in Illinois. Every time you bought ammo, your information was recorded. Too costly to keep records, non compliance, and difficult to enforce lead to it's elimination.
I had a FFL back in the 80s and there was a requirement to log all the ammo I sold, so the concept is nothing new.
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:01 AM   #10
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If Illinois had a system like the Federal Electoral College, it would be a great state.
So if ‘tyranny by the majority’ wasn’t bad enough, ‘tyranny by the minority’ would be better?
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:45 AM   #11
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So if ‘tyranny by the majority’ wasn’t bad enough, ‘tyranny by the minority’ would be better?
Voting for politicians that promise "free stuff" is not tyranny, it's stupidity. You can't fix stupid. Illinois can survive a handful of Team Blue politicians. Illinois can not survive the millions of uniformed / ill-informed people that elect them.
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:56 AM   #12
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Mike38 there are 18 Congressional Districts in Illinois. As of the 2018 election Democrats now control 13 of those 18 and flipped 2 of those in the last election that were previously Red.

It's not a matter of Knee Jerking but more a matter of flooding the Legislature with gun Bills whether they are Constitutional or not. With the intention of locking up the states gun owners in case law while it works it's way through the courts. Hinder and Disrupt legal owners.
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Old February 10, 2019, 11:09 AM   #13
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Voting for politicians that promise "free stuff" is not tyranny, it's stupidity. You can't fix stupid. Illinois can survive a handful of Team Blue politicians. Illinois can not survive the millions of uniformed / ill-informed people that elect them.
Sounds like the GOP/different message folks need to do a better job on that message. I'd say they weren't 'uniformed' but not educated in the 'other' message.
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Old February 10, 2019, 11:13 AM   #14
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Mike38 there are 18 Congressional Districts in Illinois. As of the 2018 election Democrats now control 13 of those 18 and flipped 2 of those in the last election that were previously Red.

It's not a matter of Knee Jerking but more a matter of flooding the Legislature with gun Bills whether they are Constitutional or not. With the intention of locking up the states gun owners in case law while it works it's way through the courts. Hinder and Disrupt legal owners.
Quote:
more a matter of flooding the Legislature with gun Bills whether they are Constitutional or not
Quote:
With the intention of locking up the states gun owners in case law while it works it's way through the courts. Hinder and Disrupt legal owners.
I think it's a matter of a law passed, then challenged in the courts vs a law proposed and challenged. The former may have an impact while it's progressing thru case law, the second does not, since it wasn't passed but proposed.
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Old February 10, 2019, 01:35 PM   #15
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Leaving aside, for the moment, the grand scheme behind gun control laws, can anyone come up with a possible scenario where being able to track where and when someone LEGALLY bought ammunition could have a bearing on any kind of legal matter, let alone a criminal case??

Can anyone think of a plausible scenario? (different from possible?)

I can't. I can't see any benefit from the law other than as something they can prosecute you for if you break it.
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Old February 10, 2019, 04:21 PM   #16
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A neighbor that one time lived by me was telling me at one time he was surveying in I think Africa I don't know where but he bought a 357 revolver from the hardware store there where police checks and paper work and waiting time when he had the revolver he ordered 1 box of 50 cartridges more paper work and waiting then he picked up his ammo and with in a few weeks he shot some of it . Some time later the police came by to see the gun and see the box of cartridges when opening the ammo box it was only half a box they wanted to know there the other half went he said he shot it the police where not happy at all. Then he remembered putting the empty brass in his door pouch in his vehicle . in the end all loaded and empty brass where accounted for . He was sure if he have just through the empty on the ground and left them he would be in trouble .
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Old February 10, 2019, 07:32 PM   #17
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USNRet93 I guess I should have been more clear and succinct in my wording. I will keep that in mind. The intent of my comment was we will flood the Legislature with frivolous Bills to see what we can pass and then once we pass as many of those as possible we will let it all play out in the courts as to whether they will stand.

As for this Bill I find no reasonable explanation for it other than to again just to see what they can pass.

This link was provided to me by another member regarding this law previously.
https://www.nraila.org/articles/2012...regulation2012

He has also heard there is talk of trying to expand the Cook County Ammunition tax to state wide at 1 cent per round. Then my next question is how would this law or tax effect those of us the reload?
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Old February 10, 2019, 08:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44AMP
Leaving aside, for the moment, the grand scheme behind gun control laws, can anyone come up with a possible scenario where being able to track where and when someone LEGALLY bought ammunition could have a bearing on any kind of legal matter, let alone a criminal case??

Can anyone think of a plausible scenario? (different from possible?)

I can't. I can't see any benefit from the law other than as something they can prosecute you for if you break it.
It's a step towards outlawing reloading.
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Old February 10, 2019, 09:15 PM   #19
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I see it as a step towards being able to limit the amount if ammo you can buy or possess.
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Old February 10, 2019, 10:43 PM   #20
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A friend brought up the question, If you reload what happens if they pass a law allowing them to enter you home and do an ammo inspection seeing as there will be a registry. Then what happens if you find more than you've claimed? Say you have reloaded or purchased out-of-state? Arrest? Fines? Confiscation?
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Old February 10, 2019, 11:26 PM   #21
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ok, I get that it, they are ALL steps in their hopeful course to outlawing all weapons and ammo.

What I was looking for is, what kind of situation could such a registry help police in solving a real crime, such a robbery, assault, or murder??

what use might it have as evidence?? If they say "the records show the defendant bought ammo on the 15th, at XYZ Sports, the week before the murder", what can that actually get them??

Doesn't that open up them to being required to prove that the ammo used was what was purchased? And not just the same caliber & bullet weight, but the actual ammo bought on that day, from XYZ?

Can't be done that I know of. Absent the desired microstamping/serial #ing of the ammo itself, each round, I don't see how it can be established BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. (and no doubt serial # on each case and bullet is another law on their agenda...)

Ok, it might be possible where there is no other ammo at all in the defendant's possession, a good liar can convince a jury of almost anything...but if there's any other ammo, partial box, even an empty box to show that there was other ammo potentially available, that says reasonable doubt for taking their claim at face value. Other, additional evidence would be needed to convince me.

Perhaps it is part of the grand master plan, to make prosecutors jobs more difficult, resulting in fewer convictions, more criminals on the streets, resulting in more crime and greater public demand for new gun...er, CRIME control laws..??

perhaps I'm up too late and drank too much coffee...
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Old February 11, 2019, 01:46 AM   #22
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As I posted in #17 for no other reason than to see just how far can they push the boundaries. In other words, if we can push this past the voters we can push anything.

Though with the financial state of the State of Illinois the cost of this to the state would give good reason to raise taxes again. Such as income tax, sales tax, property tax or of course to expand the Cook County Bullet Sales Tax to a state wide tax. Then again do they or can they expand this tax to reloading supplies?
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Old February 11, 2019, 11:04 PM   #23
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I was curious, wondering what, if any claimed public benefit is being used to justify the ammo registry.

The microstamping laws mad a claim about how it would help solve crimes. The laws requiring fired casings for a "ballistic fingerprint" claimed it would help solve crimes. So, is there a claimed crime solving benefit, or ability with ammo registration? Or are they just using the generic "it will reduce crime" crap?
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Old February 12, 2019, 07:34 AM   #24
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Illinois is in such dire straights financially...rated at near junk bond status.
Nothing they do surprises me.
I live in Indiana.
Cabelas that is on the border of Indiana and Illinois has started requiring Illinois residents to show there FOID cards when making ammo and reloading components purchases.
I am glad they have too.
I cant buy a damn thing in Illinois but Illinois residents come here to Indiana and empty the shelves.
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Old February 12, 2019, 07:44 AM   #25
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bulk ammo purchases could be used as red flags by state officers. joe schmuckatelli buys two boxes of ammo no big deal, he buys two cases and is now "banned" from buying more for several months/year or gets a visit from state officials as to why he "needs" so much ammo.
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