Old revolver, what is this?

riffraff · January 13, 2020, 01:54 PM

Discovered by a friend in a family hoarder house, has no SN and just looks old. Haven't put my hands on it just got a couple pics. Any idea what this is? Thx

T. O'Heir · January 13, 2020, 02:01 PM

That's probably an IJ or H&R. Mind you, everybody and his brother made revolvers like that in the later 19th Century. There should be some kind of marking on the barrel.
And 'old' doesn't mean 'valuable'.
Serial numbers were not required until 1968.

Carmady · January 13, 2020, 02:08 PM

H&R going by the target/bullseye logo on the grips.

Pahoo · January 13, 2020, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Any idea what this is?

Strange that you should post this picture and certainly am not an expert but recently acquired a piece similar to this one and it is a Forehand&Wasdsworth. Look along top of the barrel rib and well as the bottom of the butt grip. Mine information was hard to read, does list a S/N but no caliber. I Understand that the configuration of the trigger guard is a Smith design which other copied. Finally figured out that it is a .38-S&W. If you can, pull the grips and see what type of hammer spring, it has. …….

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/849075853

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zkZQEFU08

Be Safe !!!

riffraff · January 13, 2020, 03:01 PM

Good stuff guys, thanks.

The non gun person I talked through it (starting with "is it loaded"

, "lets check") said first it looks like a .22 then that bore appears to be 10mm

.. so I was thinking .38.

ligonierbill · January 13, 2020, 03:18 PM

Five shot cylinder? Carmady has the logo right. Guessing 38 S&W, not to be confused with 38 Special.

l.cutler · January 13, 2020, 04:30 PM

Most of these are .32 caliber.

shurshot · January 13, 2020, 04:55 PM

My guess is an H&R Premier. I have one in .32 S&W, appears almost identical except the nickel finish on mine is in better condition and mine has an exposed hammer. Owned it since I was 11 or 12. Late 30's / early 1940's era revolvers.

Pahoo · January 13, 2020, 07:44 PM

Quote:

so I was thinking .38

As I replied previously, mine has no caliber markings, that I can find. I took a .38 SPL and inserted it until it bottomed out and was unable to insert it completely. The diameter was right on, for a .38. I read that these were either .32 or 38-S&W. Also read that these were the CCW's of their time. That is why see mostly short barrels, nickeled and DA or bobbed hammers. Some were issued to LEO's and Military. ……

Now then, kindly tell us what you might have read along the top of the barrel.
You should also see matching S/N's on various parts, especially the cylinder.

Be Safe !!!

**4V50 Gary** · January 13, 2020, 07:47 PM

probably 32 S&W short. I think Midway has ammo for it.

Hawg · January 13, 2020, 08:11 PM

I believe that's an H&R Safety Hammerless. If a 38 special will fit til it bottoms out it's a .38 S&W.

Carmady · January 13, 2020, 10:23 PM

I think that's an old black powder gun because there's no (that I could see) caliber stamped on the left side of the barrel, and it should NOT be used with smokeless powder cartridges.

Reliable sources state that the old H&R's which do not have the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel are black powder guns, and that those which do have the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel are made for smokeless powder cartridges.

**Mal H** · January 13, 2020, 10:23 PM

Pahoo - please be patient. riffraff said he only had the two images to go on. Until he can eyeball it directly, he won't be able to answer your questions no matter how large a font you use.

Jim Watson · January 13, 2020, 10:58 PM

Pretty sure an H&R Hammerless .38 (.38 S&W.)
It isn't beat up, just rusty.

In the absence of markings, there is no way to determine its age, the model looks the same in 1901 Sears and 1939 Stoegers.

riffraff · January 13, 2020, 11:23 PM

Thanks again guys!

I will request a hard look for any more markings. Originally was told there is none. Unfortunately it will be a month before I'm where the pistol is, so if I don't get anything further via phone & pictures going to need to wait until I can look up close.

Driftwood Johnson · January 14, 2020, 12:54 AM

Howdy

It is not an Iver Johnson.

Iver Johnsons had a little owl on the grips.

The little owl faced forward on the older Black Powder Iver Johnsons.

The little owl faced backwards on the later Smokeless models.

jar · January 14, 2020, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driftwood Johnson

Howdy

It is not an Iver Johnson.

Iver Johnsons had a little owl on the grips.

The little owl faced forward on the older Black Powder Iver Johnsons.

The little owl faced backwards on the later Smokeless models.

Remember that about the easiest thing to modify is the grips. Don't use the grips to determine black or smokeless powder rather look at the cylinder stops. The smokeless powder models will have a positive cylinder stop, the small rectangular slot.

Driftwood Johnson · January 14, 2020, 09:57 PM

The other way to tell if an Iver Johnson is a Black Powder model or the later Smokeless model is to remove the grips. Whatever they look like.

The early Black Powder models had a flat, leaf type hammer spring.

The hammer spring in the Smokeless models was a coil spring.

Easy enough to determine no matter what the grips look like.

Jim Watson · January 14, 2020, 10:08 PM

H&R seems to have used full stop notches throughout.

riffraff · January 15, 2020, 12:08 AM

Well this explains it

..

January 13, 2020, 02:01 PM	#2
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	That's probably an IJ or H&R. Mind you, everybody and his brother made revolvers like that in the later 19th Century. There should be some kind of marking on the barrel. And 'old' doesn't mean 'valuable'. Serial numbers were not required until 1968. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 13, 2020, 07:47 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	probably 32 S&W short. I think Midway has ammo for it. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

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January 13, 2020, 02:08 PM	#3
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	H&R going by the target/bullseye logo on the grips.

January 13, 2020, 03:01 PM	#5
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	Good stuff guys, thanks. The non gun person I talked through it (starting with "is it loaded" , "lets check") said first it looks like a .22 then that bore appears to be 10mm .. so I was thinking .38.

January 13, 2020, 03:18 PM	#6
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	Five shot cylinder? Carmady has the logo right. Guessing 38 S&W, not to be confused with 38 Special.

January 13, 2020, 04:30 PM	#7
l.cutler Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2005 Posts: 275	Most of these are .32 caliber.

January 13, 2020, 04:55 PM	#8
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	My guess is an H&R Premier. I have one in .32 S&W, appears almost identical except the nickel finish on mine is in better condition and mine has an exposed hammer. Owned it since I was 11 or 12. Late 30's / early 1940's era revolvers.

January 13, 2020, 08:11 PM	#11
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I believe that's an H&R Safety Hammerless. If a 38 special will fit til it bottoms out it's a .38 S&W.

January 13, 2020, 10:23 PM	#12
Carmady Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 2013 Location: on the lam Posts: 1,735	I think that's an old black powder gun because there's no (that I could see) caliber stamped on the left side of the barrel, and it should NOT be used with smokeless powder cartridges. Reliable sources state that the old H&R's which do not have the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel are black powder guns, and that those which do have the caliber marked on the left side of the barrel are made for smokeless powder cartridges.

January 13, 2020, 10:23 PM	#13
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,947	Pahoo - please be patient. riffraff said he only had the two images to go on. Until he can eyeball it directly, he won't be able to answer your questions no matter how large a font you use.

January 13, 2020, 10:58 PM	#14
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	Pretty sure an H&R Hammerless .38 (.38 S&W.) It isn't beat up, just rusty. In the absence of markings, there is no way to determine its age, the model looks the same in 1901 Sears and 1939 Stoegers.

January 13, 2020, 11:23 PM	#15
riffraff Senior Member Join Date: January 21, 2016 Posts: 629	Thanks again guys! I will request a hard look for any more markings. Originally was told there is none. Unfortunately it will be a month before I'm where the pistol is, so if I don't get anything further via phone & pictures going to need to wait until I can look up close.

January 14, 2020, 12:54 AM	#16
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy It is not an Iver Johnson. Iver Johnsons had a little owl on the grips. The little owl faced forward on the older Black Powder Iver Johnsons. The little owl faced backwards on the later Smokeless models.

January 14, 2020, 09:57 PM	#18
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	The other way to tell if an Iver Johnson is a Black Powder model or the later Smokeless model is to remove the grips. Whatever they look like. The early Black Powder models had a flat, leaf type hammer spring. The hammer spring in the Smokeless models was a coil spring. Easy enough to determine no matter what the grips look like.

January 14, 2020, 10:08 PM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	H&R seems to have used full stop notches throughout.