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Old September 17, 2019, 12:13 PM   #1
Tallest
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7mm-08 Accubonds... Issues?

Good afternoon all.

Over the summer I worked up a load for my 7mm-08 Ruger deer rifle. It's 140 grain Nosler accubonds over an upper end dose of Varget. I am absolutely tickled with it because I am consistently grouping around 0.75" at 100 yds, which is more than sufficient minute-of-deer at the distances I will shoot. I am clocking about 2795-2800 fps at the muzzle.

But in the past 4 days I have talked to 3 different people, only two who know each other, who have said that they don't trust accubonds to open up on whitetail/antelope/mule deer size game. This is not consistent with the numerous reviews and articles I read when making my selection. But all 3 folks have credible experience.

So I'm hoping to get some more information before I commit to using this load all season. Has anyone else had trouble with accubonds passing through with no expansion? 7mm/.284 experience around that velocity would be most pertinent, I suppose.
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Old September 17, 2019, 04:42 PM   #2
reynolds357
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It's not so much what the accubond is shooting as it is the velocity it is hitting it at. IMHO, the ballistic tip is a much better choice for the 7-08.
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Old September 17, 2019, 04:51 PM   #3
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I double lung them with a 120 gr nosler BT at 3000 fps, kills them dead. with no eatable meat wasted.
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Old September 17, 2019, 07:34 PM   #4
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It's not so much what the accubond is shooting as it is the velocity it is hitting it at. IMHO, the ballistic tip is a much better choice for the 7-08.
About 10 years ago Nosler started making the jackets tougher on the Ballistic tips. Most people using the newer BT's report exactly the same performance on game as the Accubond. And as a rule most find the BT to be more accurate and it is cheaper.

If you get them to impact at 2000 fps or more they will expand. They are a little heavier than needed for smaller deer etc., but probably perfect for elk or other larger game. But there is a good argument for using one load that you know the trajectory of for everything. I'd use that bullet with no 2nd thoughts. But at the same time you could save some money and do as well with the Ballistic Tip.

Or even the 139 Hornady SST. It also earned a reputation for over expansion and you see it discussed on the internet a lot too. But Hornady has also addressed the issue and is building a tougher bullet than they used to. Plus even when using bullets that rapidly expand when you go heavy for caliber it helps offset that somewhat. If you're shooting 120's @ 3000 fps it needs to be a much tougher bullet than a 140 @ 2800 fps.
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Old September 17, 2019, 08:26 PM   #5
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I load 150 gr Accubond for my BIL & grandson that both shoot 308 Win at about the same velocity as your 7mm-08. They both have had very good kills with the bullets and apparently good expansion.

I am a fan of the 30-06 and use the same bullets for Texas Hill Country and South Texas white tail.

I would continue to do what you are doing.

If you loose confidence in the Accubond, go with the partitions.

I would not use an SST on anything other that vermin. Just way too fragile for me.

I also load 160 gr Accubond in the 7mm Rem Mag
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Old September 18, 2019, 07:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by reynolds357 View Post
It's not so much what the accubond is shooting as it is the velocity it is hitting it at. IMHO, the ballistic tip is a much better choice for the 7-08.
I got the 7mm-08 in 2016, and I used BTs (well... Combined Technology silver tips which are Nosler BTs with grey points and black coating) exclusively that season. They are accurate, and of the 3 white tail I shot, they took a combined total of 2 steps.

But I lost a LOT of meat, they seemed very prone to explosion/fragmentation if they made any contact with bone.

That is why I wanted to move toward what I thought might be a sturdier bullet.
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Old September 18, 2019, 07:34 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by eastbank View Post
I double lung them with a 120 gr nosler BT at 3000 fps, kills them dead. with no eatable meat wasted.
I imagine that is effective, but I'm not going to switch everything to 120 grain at this point in the game, and I'm certainly not going to get that velocity with a 140 grain bullet. Maybe that's something I can try out next year.
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Old September 18, 2019, 07:37 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
I load 150 gr Accubond for my BIL & grandson that both shoot 308 Win at about the same velocity as your 7mm-08. They both have had very good kills with the bullets and apparently good expansion.

I am a fan of the 30-06 and use the same bullets for Texas Hill Country and South Texas white tail.

I would continue to do what you are doing.

If you loose confidence in the Accubond, go with the partitions.

I would not use an SST on anything other that vermin. Just way too fragile for me.

I also load 160 gr Accubond in the 7mm Rem Mag
Good advise, I think!

I have wanted to use the partitions for a while, but folks say they aren't as accurate, and they're so expensive! Haha. I guess you get what you pay for. No other bullet has that reputation on game.

I have tried SSTs, and this gun is just allergic to them. I can't get the to group for poop.
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Old September 18, 2019, 12:18 PM   #9
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My motto: if you are going to all the trouble to hunt and put meat on the table, the bullet is not the place to cheap out on.

Too expensive? Get another hobby.
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Old September 18, 2019, 01:45 PM   #10
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"...About 10 years ago No$ler..." If the Accubond didn't work as advertised No$ler wouldn't be selling any for 10 plus years.
Velocity isn't as important as accuracy either.
"...Too expensive?..." Cheaper to shoot than it is to play that silly golf or even hockey. A hockey stick alone runs a minimum of $50 up here. No$ler stuff is over priced due to where it comes from. No$ler bullets don't do anything a domestic bullet will not. And they did not invent the polymer insert for a bullet. That was done by CIL, up here, in the late 60's.
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Old September 18, 2019, 01:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
My motto: if you are going to all the trouble to hunt and put meat on the table, the bullet is not the place to cheap out on.

Too expensive? Get another hobby.
I mean this realistically, and with as little irritation as I can muster...

But when you're young, with a young family, everything goes under the lens of cost. When you can save $10 on a box of bullets, and still get a product that is reputed to perform well and consistently, you "cheap out" and do the best you can.

Get another hobby...? You think everyone can just go into this and throw money at it without caution?
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Old September 18, 2019, 04:11 PM   #12
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You think everyone can just go into this and throw money at it without caution?
No, I don't. I crap thru a meat ass just like everyone else.

I started out as a kid....well, a young teen back in April 1963. I used my allowance and what little money I had from doing chores for the neighbors etc.

Everything I have was purchased individually a little at a time as money allowed.

I started with the Lee Loader (the hammer Lee) because I could buy a kit for $10 back then. I eventually had 8 kits for different calibers plus 3 shotshell kits.

No one has to tell me how it is to scrimp together components to load with.

If you need a place to buy Nosler components, then look at
Shooters Pro Shop for discounted bullets. Hit and miss for what you might want, but eventually you will get what you want if persistent enough.

The first decent job that I had paid me $1.75/hr and I had health insurance that I paid about half of the premium.

But, I still stand by my conviction of not scrimping on bullets. If you are gonna go to all the expenses of hunting (it ain't cheap nowadays), then increase the odds of bringing home some food that isn't all blood shot to hell.

A good bonded bullet or a partition bullet to me is worth its weight in gold.

I was raised in a way that we ate everything that was killed. That's why I don't kill skunks and porcupines.

I do not shoot aoudad any more. If you have ever smelled one you will know why.

All in all, I know where you are as I have been there more than once.
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Old September 18, 2019, 04:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest View Post
I got the 7mm-08 in 2016, and I used BTs (well... Combined Technology silver tips which are Nosler BTs with grey points and black coating) exclusively that season. They are accurate, and of the 3 white tail I shot, they took a combined total of 2 steps.

But I lost a LOT of meat, they seemed very prone to explosion/fragmentation if they made any contact with bone.


I have shot accubonds in my 7 RUM. I prefer Barnes in the hyper velocity rifles and quickly switched to them in that rifle also.

Everyone talks about cost being no factor. I agree that for 3 shots a year, it's not. Load development, practice, dope sheet work are a lot of shots and can be quite expensive. No need to waste money.

That is why I wanted to move toward what I thought might be a sturdier bullet.
I shoot 150 CT silvertips in my 7 WSM. I have killed more than 30 deer with them. Never lost a deer with them. Never recovered one of them in game. They all stayed together good enough to exit.
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Old September 18, 2019, 05:07 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
My motto: if you are going to all the trouble to hunt and put meat on the table, the bullet is not the place to cheap out on.

Too expensive? Get another hobby.
No need to waste money either. Is a bonded bullet even the best bullet for whitetail in a 7-08? I would say it's overbuilt and not as good as the regular ballistic tip.
7 RUM would be a no brainer; bonded or monolithic.
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Old September 18, 2019, 05:11 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tallest View Post
I mean this realistically, and with as little irritation as I can muster...

But when you're young, with a young family, everything goes under the lens of cost. When you can save $10 on a box of bullets, and still get a product that is reputed to perform well and consistently, you "cheap out" and do the best you can.

Get another hobby...? You think everyone can just go into this and throw money at it without caution?
I agree. Don't pay the gun snobs any attention
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Old September 18, 2019, 08:24 PM   #16
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my father and several of his friends killed many deer-bear with remington factory shells loaded with corelock bullets with no problems with proper hits on the animals hunted.
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Old September 19, 2019, 02:07 AM   #17
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I admit to using Ballistic Tips for years. Never had to track a deer. All were pass throughs.
Only had 1 instance of excessive ruined meat. 30-06 with 165gr BT. I didn't realize the deer was slightly quartering away. Went in perfect placement for broadside. Hit opposite shoulder. Picked deer up and literally threw it 10 feet. You could put your fist through the shoulder. Shot was 125 yards.

Used a 140gr Berger VLD Hunting the other year on a large doe 400+ yards with excellent results. Gun was Stevens 200 7mm-08AI.

I continue to use Ballistic Tips in my Stevens 200 (now in 250 Savage), and my 257 Roberts. (100gr & 115gr respectively).
My 7mm Rem Mag, and Forbes 24B in 280 Rem will be shooting 150gr ABLR.
My other 280 Rem & Mauser in 284 Win will be shooting 150gr Ballistic Silver Tips.

I'd love to try some Cutting Edge bullets, but at $60+ per 50, i don't see it happening unless i win the lottery.

Oh, as for the regular 140gr Accubond in my 7mm-08, i couldn't get them to shoot worth a tinkers darn. Tried every trick i could think of. Wanted them to group badly enough that i used 2 boxes (200 bullets) to try to get them to group.
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Old September 19, 2019, 07:44 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Dufus View Post
No, I don't. I crap thru a meat ass just like everyone else.

I started out as a kid....well, a young teen back in April 1963. I used my allowance and what little money I had from doing chores for the neighbors etc.

Everything I have was purchased individually a little at a time as money allowed.

I started with the Lee Loader (the hammer Lee) because I could buy a kit for $10 back then. I eventually had 8 kits for different calibers plus 3 shotshell kits.

No one has to tell me how it is to scrimp together components to load with.

If you need a place to buy Nosler components, then look at
Shooters Pro Shop for discounted bullets. Hit and miss for what you might want, but eventually you will get what you want if persistent enough.

The first decent job that I had paid me $1.75/hr and I had health insurance that I paid about half of the premium.

But, I still stand by my conviction of not scrimping on bullets. If you are gonna go to all the expenses of hunting (it ain't cheap nowadays), then increase the odds of bringing home some food that isn't all blood shot to hell.

A good bonded bullet or a partition bullet to me is worth its weight in gold.

I was raised in a way that we ate everything that was killed. That's why I don't kill skunks and porcupines.

I do not shoot aoudad any more. If you have ever smelled one you will know why.

All in all, I know where you are as I have been there more than once.
I understand. Thank you for elaborating!

I regret my outburst. I just get frustrated when folks imply that those who don't or can't throw gobs of money at their guns are cutting corners. Then sometimes my frustration causes me to type in haste to repent at leisure. :-/
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Old September 19, 2019, 07:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
No need to waste money either. Is a bonded bullet even the best bullet for whitetail in a 7-08? I would say it's overbuilt and not as good as the regular ballistic tip.
7 RUM would be a no brainer; bonded or monolithic.
Quote:
I admit to using Ballistic Tips for years. Never had to track a deer. All were pass throughs.
Only had 1 instance of excessive ruined meat. 30-06 with 165gr BT. I didn't realize the deer was slightly quartering away. Went in perfect placement for broadside. Hit opposite shoulder. Picked deer up and literally threw it 10 feet. You could put your fist through the shoulder. Shot was 125 yards.
Quote:
I shoot 150 CT silvertips in my 7 WSM. I have killed more than 30 deer with them. Never lost a deer with them. Never recovered one of them in game. They all stayed together good enough to exit.
It sounds like I need to give regular Ballistic Tips a try. Maybe they're a bit beefier than the Ballistic Silver Tips I used.
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Old September 19, 2019, 10:24 AM   #20
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Doesn't make a bit of difference which bullet you shoot your deer with, used right they all work. I don't believe you need to pay premium price to get premium performance. But then again I did do some testing with a few bullet's years ago. Used Hornady spire points, Speer hot core's and Sierra non match king. The Sierra bullet at 100yds shot into newspaper was a hollow point. the HP closed up and the bullet bent three times in a row. I have never been a fan of Sierra bullet's for hunting but for accuracy, IMO nothing beats them. The Hornady fired from a 7mm mag penertated verywell, I don't recall the depth. But what really impressed me was the bullet's expanded very well and retained 85% of their weight. The flaw was that the core could be moved around in the jacket although there was no separation. The Speer hot core was fired out of the same rifle. Good penetration and the bullet retained 85% of it's weight. The up side was that the core could not be moved in the jacket at all. I chose to go with the Hornady only because ther were a bit more accurate. Been hunting with Hornady spire point/inter lock over 40 yrs and never a failure with them. I'm certain I'd have had the same results with the hot core.

Couple years ago on another site, someone was wanting to know how much weight the Nosler Accubond retained. So Nosler is a local call for me and I called them and asked. The answer, "same as our partition, 70%". Bt the premium bullet's are simply more than I'm willing to pay especially when years of experience tell me that good cup and core bullet's properly used get the job done at half the cost and I can afford to practice with the bullet's I'll actually use. I really don't believe brand has a lot to do with it other than Sierra. Good bullet's but when I did use them I got terrible destruction inside animals hit with them. But the other side of that is that I never lost an animal with them either.

Seem's to me that a lot of people use premium bullet's to attempt to make up for their own lack of shooting skill, that doesn't work. Lot of other's simply like to let people know they use the best of everything, what ever best means. As I said, even with the Sierra bullet's I don't care for, pre hunter bullet's BYW, they still killed game very dead!

Some years ago I worked up a 75gr V-Max load for one of my 243's. That is a very explosive varmint bullet. I used a 2" piece of foam for a target backing then and the bullet would penetrate the target and the backing and on the ground behind the target the ground was a mess of ripped apart jacket metal. Tells me it's not a good deer bullet unless, the shot is very carefully placed. So I did shoot a doe with it. Bullet went in just behind the shoulder and ripped her legs right out from under her, no exit. Inside was an absolute mess. No way the track the bullet and the bullet was no more than bit's a pieces all over inside. Absolutely successful but still doesn't make the V-Max a hunting bullet for big game!
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Old September 19, 2019, 06:37 PM   #21
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Go with the Accubond. You'll be just fine. One of my hunting partners shoot a 7MM Mag with the 160 gr. AB. I've seen him drop elk as far out as 400 yards and that bullet had to be going slower out there than you 140 gr. at normal deer range. He shoots, elk die. Recovered bulls looked good with decent retained weight.
My experience with the Accubond is very thin, one elk at roughly 100 yards with the 165 gr. AB at 2890 FPS. Bullet hit the elk in the short ribs and ended up in the left side lung we think as it was never recovered. The elk ran for maybe thirty feet and expired.
This coming elk season I'm strongly considering using my 7x57 Mauser which using proper hand loads will run right along with the 7-08 and even slightly surpass it. I have one load worked up with the 150 gr. Nosler partition doing 2700 FPS and another at 2800 FPS. I'm also working with the Nosler 150 gr. Accubond Long Range but so far that one and my rifle are not happy with each other.
Here's a little hint on saving a few pennies on reloading. I understand the Partitions are a bit pricey so do the major load work up with a Sierra bullet that's as close to the Nosler as you can find. For you that would be the 140 gr. spitzer boattail (Game King) Once you find a load, drop back a grain and a half and work back up with the Nosler PT. Hoe well does this work? Well I've done it with a .270 Win. 30-06 and .300 Win. Mag. One the Win. Mag. I used the 200 gr. Speer Hot core for the work up. I used that load to take a cow elk in the White Mountains of Arizona about ten years back. I got hold of some 200 gr. Nosler cheap at a gun show and did thew work up. I can shoot either load into .75". If I mix and match, shoot slow so the barrel doesn't get too hot and all 6 bullets will be within 1.5" or less. One the 06 it was the 165 gr. Game King for he basic work up and for the .270 the 150 gr. Game King. Try it, it works.
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Old September 19, 2019, 10:25 PM   #22
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Tallest, it can be easy to over think which bullet might be best. Marketing and hype, as well as people's opinions can get my mind going in a circle about that subject. Use the AB and have fun.

A friend of mine is a young engineer, and has relatives that make custom rifles and shoot long range competitions. My friend got himself well indoctrinated by the relatives about the wonders of Berger bullets. We were talking oneday, and he got so excited telling me how wonderful Berger bullets are he could hardly breathe. But gee, how did my Dad kill game with a 25-35 using bullet technology of the 40's??
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Old September 19, 2019, 11:47 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest View Post
It sounds like I need to give regular Ballistic Tips a try.
I certainly would try that. I used Federal ballistic tips for years on whitetail through my 7 mag. I've probably killed around 70 or 80 deer with that bullet. It was always accurate. I took double lung shots most of the time, and while the ballistic tip did come apart on almost all of them, it left nothing but soup where the lungs used to be. I'd routinely pour the lungs out of the deer upon cleaning. The downside was that it could ruin an entire shoulder. When it fragged a shoulder on the far side, the meat was an unusable mess.

If you hunt in a place where you NEED a blood trail, they may not be the best choice, but nothing ever ran further than 30 or 40 yards so it was never an issue for me.

I've used Accubonds on them as well, no problems there either, but we're just talking about whitetail here, they're not hard to penetrate, nor to kill.
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Old September 20, 2019, 11:41 AM   #24
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I've taken a lot of Whitetails since 1986 using only 150 grn Btips from a 3006, this load mostly left nothing edible between the entry and exit.
I started using Accubonds about 8 years ago, in a .270 win I had, it always passed through as I shoot for lower lung and heart shot behind shoulder.
As for the fella North of the border, I don't understand any of your garble. The Polycarbonate tip was introduced to the Btip to reduce tip deformation in magazines.
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Old September 21, 2019, 02:49 PM   #25
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"As for the fella North of the border, I don't understand any of your garble. The Polycarbonate tip was introduced to the Btip to reduce tip deformation in magazines."

Actually the fella north of the border is correct. I think it was Dominion brand ammo and it had a plastic tip.They were way ahead of the game on that one, the exception being Remington's Bronze Point. IIRC, the tip was more rounded than spire points. IIRC, they called it something like the poly-ball or something similar.
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